"Edd, fetch me a block."

[Budj]

I totally agree that it wasn't as satisfying as it could be due to the fact it was lowly Slynt...lower than bebop and rocksteady equivalents in Ninja Turtle terms...but the manner in which it happened was great. Jon carried out a just sentence rather than giving into his emotional side and I think that was awesome, respectable, and honorable....in line with his character.

[Silver Spearwife]

It's even more interesting when comparing Slynt and Ygritte in the same situation.

Slynt is such wuss. :lmao:

:lol: Agreed.

Ygritte: "Do it. Bastard. Do it. I can't stay brave forever."

Janos: “Please, my lord. Mercy. I’ll … I’ll go, I will, I …”

Well, I'm a big Jon fan, but I'm afraid that scene didn't do anything for me.

It was just so, well, insignificant.

I guess it's because Slynt is a nobody. A buffoon. And here we are apparently supposed to go "Hell yeah, Jon is the man!" when he chops off this loser's head.

Sorry, it left me utterly unmoved.

If it had been Tywin Lannister's head, on the other hand, or Roose Bolton's, then I would have gone 'Hell yeah!''

But those who celebrate Jon for putting Janos Slynt out of his misery, well, I think you guys just set the bar very low for our hero.

Tyrion gets to off Tywin himself, Dany gets to sack entire cities, Arya witholds mercy from the Hound himself in a very cathartic scene for me, and we are supposed to get goosebumps when Jon offs Janos Frogface?

It truly left me feeling cheated.

Hey, who said that this was the biggest moment Jon'll ever get? Give 'im time. Just sit back and enjoy watching the little shit lose his head.

Yea.. It was the coolest thing Jon ever did. I was surprised at first but he showed authority over Slynt in the coolest way ever.

Please do remind me though, does Jon know that it was Slynt who betrayed Ned?

Yes, he does know.

Yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.

[The Drunkard]

I thought it was hilarious seeing Slynt metaphorically piss himself when he realised no one gave a damn about his "friends in King's Landing". The bastard got to realise in his last moments that he was a nobody, and he was just a pawn to people more powerful that never truely had his back. That was for Ned, biatch.

[Free Northman]

Look, I think Jon has already failed to stay neutral in this whole dispute for the Throne, by sheltering Stannis, pointing him in the direction of the Mountain Clans to get more men etc.

If he did the same for Tywin Lannister, would we not say that he is helping the Lannisters?

Same with helping "Arya" to escape from Ramsay.

So him decapitating Slynt in his role as "Lord Commander" rather than in his personal capacity is to me just a convenient excuse to do what he wants to do in any case.

Now. Having said all the above:

I don't make the above points to criticize Jon. Instead, I use it to discredit the ridiculous nature of the Night's Watch vows. It is proposterous to expect someone to give up his family - the closest unit of existence that there is for a human being - and to feel nothing for them just because you said some words.

That will never be acceptable to me.

Hence, I am fully in favour of Jon taking sides in the War. I just want the inconvenient Night's Watch to cease to exist, so that he can do so with his full attention.

I don't hold a man in low regard for deserting the army to go and defend his family. Because family always comes first to me, no matter what. Above your country, above your oaths, above your honor, above everything. Above your own life.

Family comes first. I respect someone who feels the same way.

[The Last Reyne]

AAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW YEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I just had to get that out. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[Lummel]

...Besides, it also served on his way to "killing the boy" imo. I thought it was very significant. His father always telling his sons about not handing down the sentence unless your willing to perform the act yourself. Something around the lines anyway.

I agree that it's a very significant moment. Both because it's an absolute challenge to his authority as Lord Commander something that has been poked at and prodded at by Thorne, Slynt and a couple of Stannis' men and because what feels right is carrying out the sentenca the way The Ned would have done it rather than hanging him in the southern fashion.

...I guess that's what made it less satisfying, than say Arya's stabbing of the Tickler in all her personal rage and emotion...

You're looking for the emotion of the characters to support the way you are feeling about their situation, but you're right there is a disconnect Jon doesn't want to kill Slynt as a matter of revenge, he's trying to think of him as a brother and this isn't revenge so much as discipline for insubordination.

There's some more commentry and debate on that chapter here

[Harle The Handsome]

Look, I think Jon has already failed to stay neutral in this whole dispute for the Throne, by sheltering Stannis, pointing him in the direction of the Mountain Clans to get more men etc.

If he did the same for Tywin Lannister, would we not say that he is helping the Lannisters?

Same with helping "Arya" to escape from Ramsay.

So him decapitating Slynt in his role as "Lord Commander" rather than in his personal capacity is to me just a convenient excuse to do what he wants to do in any case.

LC Snow didn't really have a choice in his interactions with Stannis. When Stannis came to the wall- or more precisely, saved the wall from being overrun- he had a legitimate, or at least plausible, claim to the Iron Throne. Any action he does could be seen as weighing in. If he acts as if Stannis is a pretender, then he really IS breaking from neutrality, by finding Stannis' claim wanting. The very same arguement could be made had the claimant at the wall been the Lannisters.

No, it was not a convenient excuse to decapitate Slynt in his role as Lord Commander. While he may have very well despised Janos Slynt, he had a fiduciary obligation to the Night's Watch. He had to forgive Slynt of whatever crimes he had committed once he came to the wall. The same would have been expected of him had Theon Greyjoy taken Maester Liuwyn's advice and taken the Black. It wasn't until Janos Slynt CHOSE to disobey the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch that Jon was forced to act. This is the distinction between justice and vengence. The Lord Commander doesn't need the men at the wall to like him, only to obey.

Now. Having said all the above:

I don't make the above points to criticize Jon. Instead, I use it to discredit the ridiculous nature of the Night's Watch vows. It is proposterous to expect someone to give up his family - the closest unit of existence that there is for a human being - and to feel nothing for them just because you said some words.

That will never be acceptable to me.

Then you simply don't understand the nature of the Night's Watch or its purpose, nor do you understand the importance of the oath they swore. They give up their family south of the wall and join a new family of brothers. Yes, that is an enormous sacrifice, and that is exactly the point. From the day you speak your vows til the end of your days, the needs of the Wall are primate. You may still have feelings for your family or may still remember your families rivalries, but whatever those may be, they must be stifled if ever they interfere with your duties at the wall.

Hence, I am fully in favour of Jon taking sides in the War. I just want the inconvenient Night's Watch to cease to exist, so that he can do so with his full attention.

I don't hold a man in low regard for deserting the army to go and defend his family. Because family always comes first to me, no matter what. Above your country, above your oaths, above your honor, above everything. Above your own life.

Family comes first. I respect someone who feels the same way.

I find it sad that you feel that way, that duty and sacrifice are some fool's errand. The fact is these unpleasant sacrifices are vital necessities in order for Westeros or any other society to survive. No man who knows a foxhole doesn't dream of their family, but they recognize that their sacrifice is absolutely necessary and anyone who abandons their oath puts everyone else in danger. That is why deserters must be held in low regard.

BTW, there is a name for those who value family over everything else. They call themselves La Cosa Nostra.

[Free Northman]

LC Snow didn't really have a choice in his interactions with Stannis. When Stannis came to the wall- or more precisely, saved the wall from being overrun- he had a legitimate, or at least plausible, claim to the Iron Throne. Any action he does could be seen as weighing in. If he acts as if Stannis is a pretender, then he really IS breaking from neutrality, by finding Stannis' claim wanting. The very same arguement could be made had the claimant at the wall been the Lannisters.

No, it was not a convenient excuse to decapitate Slynt in his role as Lord Commander. While he may have very well despised Janos Slynt, he had a fiduciary obligation to the Night's Watch. He had to forgive Slynt of whatever crimes he had committed once he came to the wall. The same would have been expected of him had Theon Greyjoy taken Maester Liuwyn's advice and taken the Black. It wasn't until Janos Slynt CHOSE to disobey the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch that Jon was forced to act. This is the distinction between justice and vengence. The Lord Commander doesn't need the men at the wall to like him, only to obey.

Then you simply don't understand the nature of the Night's Watch or its purpose, nor do you understand the importance of the oath they swore. They give up their family south of the wall and join a new family of brothers. Yes, that is an enormous sacrifice, and that is exactly the point. From the day you speak your vows til the end of your days, the needs of the Wall are primate. You may still have feelings for your family or may still remember your families rivalries, but whatever those may be, they must be stifled if ever they interfere with your duties at the wall.

I find it sad that you feel that way, that duty and sacrifice are some fool's errand. The fact is these unpleasant sacrifices are vital necessities in order for Westeros or any other society to survive. No man who knows a foxhole doesn't dream of their family, but they recognize that their sacrifice is absolutely necessary and anyone who abandons their oath puts everyone else in danger. That is why deserters must be held in low regard.

BTW, there is a name for those who value family over everything else. They call themselves La Cosa Nostra.

I'd argue that if you wanted to get men to protect the realm against and existential threat, then it would serve far better to select men who are fighting for their families, and are therefore fighting to protect something they value above all else, than to take men who are only there because it is better than sitting in a dungeon in King's Landing, and who have nothing of value that they are fighting for.

The whole notion of the Night's Watch is ridiculous.

Go to every village in the realm and tell the men that they are needed in a war to save their families, and they will die for that cause.

Take everything of value away from them and tell them to go and freeze on some Wall? Why on earth would they be motivated to do that, unless they are on the point of suicide in any case, having nothing left of value to live for.

Stupid notion.

[Free Northman]

In fact, the Watch would have been far stronger and better manned if men were selected to serve at the Wall for a 2 year period, as part of the feudal duty of every lord to the Crown.

Then you could have a small core of maybe 500 rangers who serve as commanders on a permanent basis - until they choose to retire -and have say 5000 conscripted men from across the Realm serving at the Wall for a 2 year conscripted period.

2500 can be rotated out every year, thus providing a period of overlap for the "veterans'' with one year's service already behind them to ease in the newcomers.

The point is, 5000 motivated, strong, non-rapist/murder/man-whore/one-armed deviants could man the Wall properly and do far better than the few hundred miscreants that are doing a pisspoor job of it at the moment.

Make the oaths less strenuous - 2 years instead of a lifetime, for exmaple - and you'd have far more men willing to do their share.

[Kyle Baratheon]

Gentlemen, this conversation belongs on another thread.

[King Doug]

I'd argue that if you wanted to get men to protect the realm against and existential threat, then it would serve far better to select men who are fighting for their families, and are therefore fighting to protect something they value above all else, than to take men who are only there because it is better than sitting in a dungeon in King's Landing, and who have nothing of value that they are fighting for.

The whole notion of the Night's Watch is ridiculous.

Go to every village in the realm and tell the men that they are needed in a war to save their families, and they will die for that cause.

Take everything of value away from them and tell them to go and freeze on some Wall? Why on earth would they be motivated to do that, unless they are on the point of suicide in any case, having nothing left of value to live for.

Stupid notion.

The only reason the Wall is full of criminals is because people don't volunteer freely anymore. The few men of honor that do volunteer, such as Benjen and Jon Snow, do understand that they are protecting the realm (and their family) by making the sacrifice and taking the oath.

The whole point of the Night's Watch has been forgotten in Westeros. The reason the Wall was built is looked upon as myth and fantasy, just like every story from the Age of Heroes.

But yes, this thread has already digressed

[surfKraken]

Loved, loved, LOVED thay acene when I read it.

Was surprised too. When Jon hesitated about the noose and thought to himself' wait, this is not right' I was like 'aww man, he's gonna chicken out and let him live'

But then Jon went hard core and swung the sword himself. My man.

[Where Went Whent]

Janos Slynt's death meant alot to me. The guy was a motherfuc who made a bastard shine.

[StarkWard]

And thus, Jon killed the boy, and let the man be born.

[Night Gathers]

One of the best moments in the entire series. :bowdown:

[The Drunkard]

It's one of the few moments of actual justice. Need more hardcore justice.

[SeanF]

I loved the scene, too. And, best of all, right up to the last moment, I thought Jon would reprieve him.

[etu]

AAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW YEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I just had to get that out. Thank you.

TESTIFY!

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think it was one of Jon Snow's rather rare cool moments :)

But Jon is always cool. Snow cool :cool4:

...and that's me trying to make a pun. It sounded much better in my head. :drunk:

[Brony Stark]

I nearly threw down the book when Slynt comes up to the wall and throws Jon in an ice cell. 'This bastard again?'

Then this scene came and I fist pumped.