danm_999 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not really.There's too much about the character to yet unfold (his parentage for one, his significance to prophecy and the Others for another). If he dies, the only POV we have left on the Wall is Melisandre, which is kind of a drag since she doesn't direct Night's Watch policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Reed Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And now that Golden Boy is gone, someone else will have to do to save us.Golden Girl? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leto Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would love for him to be dead and stay dead. When you kill the boy you also kill the man! It would be very refreshing to have a built up character die before the projected arc is completed. I really don't agree with the voices saying it's poor narrative. People die before their potential is reached, yet life, the world and the story will move on.That being said, I seriously doubt he is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 This is only a cliffhanger to people who also thought Brienne might be dead at the end of Feast, or that Arya had somehow suffered a terrible and permanent punishment when she went blind, or that Arya hadn't really killed Daeron. People who don't read between the lines, in other words.Jon had to die temporarily for three reasons:1. To allow the Wall to fall despite Jon's best attempts to save it.2. To free him of his oaths.3. To be reborn as Azor Ahai, amids smoke and salt and all that jazz.It is so utterly obvious that he will not be gone for long.Again, I say. Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya and Sansa will all reach the endgame of the series. They are the main characters.Martin has merely disguised this by killing off pretend main characters, like Eddard, Robb and Catelyn.I have not the slightest bit of apprehension when Arya is in a potentially deadly situation, or Jon, or Bran. Because I KNOW they will be there in the endgame. And I like it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athanasius Pernath Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 we all know he isn't definitely dead, there's not even the 0.0001 possibility that he's dead and stay dead, so there's no really anything to say.he isn't dead, and so that was not a 'cliffhanger', but just a poor editor's (or author's) choice of where to end Jon's storyline in ADWD.since we all know he isn't dead, 'd have been better to end the book with an image of Jon's sight inside of Ghost, or of Jon's body put on the ice cell or whatever Martin has in his mind :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would love for him to be dead and stay dead. When you kill the boy you also kill the man! It would be very refreshing to have a built up character die before the projected arc is completed. I really don't agree with the voices saying it's poor narrative. People die before their potential is reached, yet life, the world and the story will move on.That being said, I seriously doubt he is dead.Character arc and potential are different things. Robb didn't have to die, he had a lot more that he could have done, but it made narrative sense for him to go at that point in the story.With Jon its different, and not just because he's POV. His death resolves nothing. I'd be like if Luke Skywalker died at the end of A New Hope and Darth Vader just made an offhand remark that he was his son at some later point. It would have been shocking for the sake of being shocking, which is not good writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I can't believe the people who'd like Jon to stay 'dead' just for.....what....realism?Are you kidding me???? :bs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respectable Chap Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I can't believe the people who'd like Jon to stay 'dead' just for.....what....realism?Are you kidding me???? :bs:Why not? While he's at it GRRM can get rid of those stupid 'dragons' and unrealistic seasons. The Others? Yeah, right, as if that's realistic. I for one look forward to the day when we get a POV chapter where the only plot development is a character moving their bowels.Hey, I said only plot development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Why not? While he's at it GRRM can get rid of those stupid 'dragons' and unrealistic seasons. The Others? Yeah, right, as if that's realistic. I for one look forward to the day when we get a POV chapter where the only plot development is a character moving their bowels.Hey, I said only plot developmentAll I'm saying is that this supposedly holy 'realism' is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 All I'm saying is that this supposedly holy 'realism' is overrated.Totally agree.If you want realism, go and read non-fiction. Go and read War and Peace. I read fantasy for a different thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I dont think Jon is dead/or dies. Oaths have been important in the series, the cliffhanger for me is how does GRRM resolve Jon's oaths to the NW... There are alot of story arcs near the wall, I think some of them need to be over :ack: , I think Jon's story has more to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daevumshleebee Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 he will die in a "Frodo-like" way. He'll save Westeros but the wounds will be deadly.frodo-like? he did not die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aly Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I REFUSE to believe that Jon is dead. And if he is and is somehow brought back by the Red Witch I think that I'll scream. I don't want her to have anything to do with his saving/resurrection. He would be indebted to her when he has always been a little leery of her involvement. I would rather see the wildlings come to his rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 A dozen knife stabs are nothing against his Plot Armor. He's safe at least until aDoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alric Stark Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I am in the minority that Jon can stay dead. I can see the story working with him alive or dead. Coming back he obviously can add to the story. Dead once it gets out R+L=J he can be used by either Aegon or Dany as an exampole of Targaryns putting the good of the Realm above even their own honor. How they are the defenders of humanity as Jon looked past the Wildlings "nature" and still protected them and died as a result.It is not a glamrous as coming back, and does not fit a lot of the preconceived notions of a epic hero, but I like the "feet of clay" story better with less magic and dragons etc. I don't think ti would be "bad" stroytelling as some people have alluded to, just much gritter. Sometimes the good guys die for what they believe in and actions they take inspire others to greatness.All that being said I will be shocked beyond shocked if Jon stays dead. I am hoping he is in a "coma" and comes out with having his wounds tended to. I am afraid it is going to be *magic and warging and magic and warging* that saves him however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Jon can not be dead. There is much of the story that would become meaningless. I know GRRM does not want to write a typical fantasy - but Jon dead now, just does not make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammothsbane Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I agree that Jon being resurrected would cheapen the "GRRM doesn't care about your feelings, he'll kill anyone at anytime" aspect, but he also has a story to tell. Now, Jon is my favorite character, but I don't think he is dead as of yet simply because his story hasn't had much resolution. All other huge character deaths have come at the conclusion of their story or to serve some greater aspect of the plot (or both). Jon's story doesn't feel "done" yet. Unless of course the larger plot is to have the Others roflstomp the Wall, which will most likely happen if Jon is dead for good since the Wildlings and the Night's Watch under Bowen Marsh would probably kill each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Resurrection Jon also seems to have no purpose, plot wise. You arent going to get him out of his vows that way - it's too cheap. I note the people who were named who wanted to go to Winterfell with him were wildlings, not NW so he wasnt asking anyone to forsake vows. There hasnt been a single person resurrected who has been equal to a living person - they are limited. Still think it is the first blow struck by either the Others or Mel, dont know if he will survive but this is a huge moment in the story. Maybe he will have the same fate as Benjen whatever that was - carried off by Others to ... somewhere for some reason?? Or maybe Mel or a maester will save him. None of his stabbings were necessarily fatal, as opposed to Kevan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I dont think Jon is dead/or dies. Oaths have been important in the series, the cliffhanger for me is how does GRRM resolve Jon's oaths to the NW... There are alot of story arcs near the wall, I think some of them need to be over :ack: , I think Jon's story has more to tell.Nobody is perfect in these stories. One recurring theme is that people make and break vows and he clearly was abandoning his NW vows when he decided to go to Winterfell. I agree vows are important which makes it important when they are bent or broken. Story arcs are meeting at several nexi - the Wall, Winterfell, Meereen, the Citadel, KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 :stillsick: :idea: He will come back as a wight...then get the "Kiss of Life"...then jump out of Ghost into his body (after a few lessons from Bran & Bloodraven)...to become the power of the Others & the Fire God living in 'harmony'...in other words...THE SONG OF ICE & FIRE!!! :shocked: Sorry, I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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