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Winter's Knight

Catelyn Stark: A Denouncement

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Catelyn Stark is perhaps the most despicable character to have set foot in Westoros. Despite her constant protestations of "Family, Duty, Honour", has there ever been a woman more unnatural, more unkind?

"But wait!", you cry O gentle reader, "surely Cat's blunders are few and easily explainable! For instance, her despising Jon Snow: an unknown bastard, baseborn and brought home by her husband even before she had crossed the threshold! And his origins kept a secret by her lord husband, despite her earnest pleadings-how could she not resent the slim youth who resembled her liege more than his trueborn sons?"

"And furthermore", you say, "a mother's grief at losing her two youngest and a mother's fear for her daughters led her to free the Kingslayer! And yet here too, she retained the sense to trust to Tyrion rather than Tywin to return the last of her children safely."

"Weep for it", you say, "for this strong, brave, wise woman. This mother who bore the weight of a dead son-and what load is heavier to bear?"

But I say you are wrong gentle reader for you forgot the culture of Westoros and the nature of women. For Westorosi norms demand not just that bastards be downtrodden but that women revere and obey their husbands. Now consider: Ned is not just Cat's husband but her liege lord as well and she is not just his wife but his devoted subject. Any defiance on her part thus takes on the scarlet hue of treason.

Consider further that she is not just a woman wed but a mother as well-and what can be more natural an instinct than maternal love? Yet she deliberately and perversely stifles any and all affections she may have harboured for the poor defenceless babe, all because of her petty jealousy.

And not being content with being an unnatural woman herself, she seeks to encourage it in other ladies of high birth-consider her approval of Brienne's strange doings and her sending the poor, defenceless Maid of Tarth unescorted to King's Landing in the company of a known blackguard Jaime Lannister.

I submit to you, for your consideration then reader, this perverse, unnatural, traitorous lady, this corrupter of the young and request-nay demand-that you banish her from your good graces forever.

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Lol, if I had every penny for every Randyll Tarly/Roose Bolton/Robert Baratheon/Tywin Lannister thread who were by your standards much worse of a parent than Catelyn was, I would be as rich as the Lannisters and much more.

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I submit to you, for your consideration then reader, this perverse, unnatural, traitorous lady, this corrupter of the young and request-nay demand-that you banish her from your good graces forever.

:rofl:

You are right, people are way too hard on Cat. For the short time I've been coming to these boards, I am amazed at how many people hate poor Cat (and Dany for that matter, though that has been well documented).

Sure, Cat has made some mistakes, but so has every character in these books. And her mistakes all come from a good place.

I think a lot of venom towards Cat is the fact that she is a Mother, and lots of people have mommy issues.

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AHA!

Nay, fair knight, I now notice the error of my ways. I am clearly in the wrong. Forgive me and let us both pray to the Crone, who has gracefully lifted her golden lantern of wisdom to show me the One True Way.

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Gotta tear other people down to make yourself feel better. Its why we never get anywhere.

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actually, cat and brienne travelling together was a refreshing subplot. it was really great to see women looking out for one another considering very few people do that in westeros. and now, brienne is fighting for her life so she won't have to dangle from a rope at the command of uncat.

le sigh.

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Her greatest and smartest act of intelligence and kindness was to free Jaime Lannister on the hypothetical word that Tyrion will free her daughters, after trying to free his brother during a diplomatic negociation. What a heart? You must see the good in every man to be that trusting. Otherwise, I agree with the OP, she's unnatural and traitorous, as are all the ladies of Westeros

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Her greatest and smartest act of intelligence and kindness was to free Jaime Lannister on the hypothetical word that Tyrion will free her daughters, after trying to free his brother during a diplomatic negociation. What a heart? You must see the good in every man to be that trusting. Otherwise, I agree with the OP, she's unnatural and traitorous, as are all the ladies of Westeros

i know, right? especially since not a few months ago she had tyrion arrested for trying to murder her son. that woman has a true heart of gold to forgive and forget like that, right? an inspiration to us all.

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I lol'd.

Poor Cat, I really don't get the hate. I think it might have something to do with Mommy issues too....

:)

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And we're off! Everyone be sure to continue to use as many strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks as possible, or else it won't be a proper Catelyn thread. Have fun :D

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Winter's Knight, you my dear, are a genius! Another amazing post

Thank you for bringing the truth to the masses. Silly me, I had thought Sansa was the most evil person in Westeros, but clearly I was wrong.

How dare this woman resent having to life with proof of her husband's infidelity every single day, the gall, the nerve! Just because he did this, contrary to the norm of society, publicly shaming his wife. I think it is very rude and selfish of her to have any feelings on this at all.

Then later, she released Jaime. How heartless of her, wanting her daughter's back.

Pure evil. Ramsay and Gregor have nothing on this woman

edit: spelling

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And we're off! Everyone be sure to continue to use as many strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks as possible, or else it won't be a proper Catelyn thread. Have fun :D

Indeed!!! Also, if people could base their arguments upon information not in the text, that'd be great too!

edit: spelling

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Ok, tell me the truth. Did you already have this written in your OP stockpile? This came out suspiciously fast.

I know people's tastes vary, but Cat was one of the characters that I unequivocally favored when I first read aGoT. A Medieval Mary Poppins is how I imagined her, and Mary Poppins was my childhood hero.

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Ok, tell me the truth. Did you already have this written in your OP stockpile? This came out suspiciously fast.

Lyanna's not the only one who sleeps on weirwood stumps. :P

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And we're off! Everyone be sure to continue to use as many strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks as possible, or else it won't be a proper Catelyn thread. Have fun :D

I may use straw man arguments, but never ad hominem ;)

Interesting that we are redirected to discuss Cat because it was getting heated on the other forum, and yet, for those of us who dislike her, we are told we have mommy issues. THAT is an informal logical fallacy.

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Cat destroyed the Starks by letting the Kingslayer go. The other stuff is just bravado. I'll break it down for you.

Cat is half to blame for Rob's marriage. Rob was a King in love, surrounded in a world where everyone was doing whatever they wanted. The only positive thing going for Rob between Winterfell and Kingslanding was having the Kingslayer. And his own mother let him go. She might as well of been his best man at that point. Because if there was any doubts of marriage going through Rob's mind, Cat erased them by letting the Jamie go.

What she did also lost Rob the Karstarks. I can safely say It was at that point that the Red Wedding was planned. Not only did Rob lose 2000 men and horses, but he made 2000 more enemies.

Now for the real reason of all the Cat hate. Cat's blind stupidity adds to up betrayal. She betrayed Rob long before Roose, or Frey did. Whether she meant good or not. Honestly how stupid can she be? She took the word of a man who killed his own king, and pushed her 9 year old son out of a tower window, all coming from the man who betrayed her husband. Her stupidity is almost beyond belief. She is in my top five most hated for sure, and her sister Lysa has the number one spot.

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