Who will win the battle of Winterfell?

[jentario]

I think Stanny and Wywy will gang up on the Freys and (after a long meeting where he convinces Stannis that Davos is alive, possibly using Theon's knowledge of the living Starks) they return to Winterfell dressing Stannis's men in Frey armor. Wyman will present "Lightbringer" to the Boltons as proof of Stannis's death (and say that Black Walder died in battle) and will start getting Northern Lords inside Winterfell on their side. This is when Ramsay sends his letter to Jon. When the time is right, the Boltons are toast- Stannis and the Northern Lords wreck havoc from the inside. I don't see the Boltons surviving this (or maybe just one of them escapes).

[The Drunkard]

I don't believe Stannis will win for 2 reasons. The first is that If Stannis won decisively, the first thing he would do would be to cut down the Godswood of Winterfell. But that's like LF raping Sansa. Even GRRM has boundaries.

He wouldn't do that. That was his intention when he believed the North would unite under a legitimized Jon Stark and the king who saved the Wall, period, but after his talks with Jon he knows that it won't be so easy. Since then everything he's done has been with winning the Northmen over in mind, like feasting with the mountain clans and asking their support, driving the Ironborn out of Northern castles, and marching on Winterfell to fight the Boltons and rescue 'the Ned's little girl'. Burning the godswood would be counter to everything he's experienced since arriving at the Wall.

The other reason is that in the larger story, Stannis is a vehicle for Melisandre to meet Jon. Mel literally loses all interest in Stannis when she meets Jon. Stannis lost at the Blackwater because he didn't have Mel with him. This time she doesn't want to go. Now that Stannis has served his purpose, this battle looks like a good way to kill him.

Melisandre hasn't lost interest in Stannis whatsoever.

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf's face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.

It appears that the Freys will drown in the lake. Then Stannis will have his forces dress as the Freys with the turned Manderlys and infiltrait Winterfell. Roose will more than likely have left for the Dreadfort, but Ramsey will have no such luck.

Check out the patch face prediction on this.

"I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

Huh, I had never connected that prophecy to the events at Winterfell. Nice, although I wonder about what the seahorses and seashells means if this is a relevant prophecy.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Huh, I had never connected that prophecy to the events at Winterfell. Nice, although I wonder about what the seahorses and seashells means if this is a relevant prophecy.

Seashells could be Asha and the Iron born present there.

There are no trumpets in the Drowned God’s watery halls. Below the waves the merlings hail their lord by blowing into seashells.

For Seahorses, Stannis does have a seahorse banner in his army

The wind was whipping them too wildly for Jon to see the sigils, but he glimpsed a seahorse, a field of birds, a ring of flowers. And yellow, so much yellow, yellow banners with a red device, whose arms were those?

[Mourneblade]

Manderly sigil is the mermaid. A fool now leads the Freys. They will march into death but their uniforms and banners will be worn by Stannis men when they return to Winterfell.

[The Drunkard]

Seashells could be Asha and the Iron born present there.

For Seahorses, Stannis does have a seahorse banner in his army

I'm not sure what the significance of riding the seahorses would be, though I like the Ironborn connection, with mermaids hailing their lord under the waves (after death) being potential foreshadowing for the Manderlys hailing Roose/Ramsay after Stannis' group goes under the waves ('dies').

[Chatty Duelist]

Stannis.

The Freys and Boltons will be killed mostly by the breaking ice on the lake. While the mountain clansmen ambush them in the forest and the Manderlys cut off their retreat.

[Formerly Tetrarch42]

Stannis is going to make the Boltons and Freys his little babies.

He will get them in his domain and breastfeed them until they die.

[barmyscouser]

He wouldn't do that. That was his intention when he believed the North would unite under a legitimized Jon Stark and the king who saved the Wall, period, but after his talks with Jon he knows that it won't be so easy. Since then everything he's done has been with winning the Northmen over in mind, like feasting with the mountain clans and asking their support, driving the Ironborn out of Northern castles, and marching on Winterfell to fight the Boltons and rescue 'the Ned's little girl'. Burning the godswood would be counter to everything he's experienced since arriving at the Wall.

Melisandre hasn't lost interest in Stannis whatsoever.

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf's face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.

So you don't think Stannis would cut down the Godswood? Do you also not think that Stannis is a petty small-minded bigot?

I should apologize. I said that Stannis was only useful as transport for Mel. But GRRM also uses the Stannis character to show the limitations of rigid thinking. Stannis can't build a coalition because he expects the whole realm to seek him out, lay their swords at his feet and kiss his ass. Only life ain't like that.

Jon may have taught Stannis a couple of charms, but I don't think he cured him of being an asshole.

Let me try a different tact. Stannis is not the hero of ASoIaF. He is a cautionary tale. GRRM would have to be a secret NAZI to hold Stannis up as the model of effective leadership. But for all his kinks, GRRM has more heart than that.

[Uldra I]

Besides, I believe Manderly is not caring for his life so much, especially now that he has his son back at white harbor. Remember how reckless he was in Winterfell and how cautious back in white harbor?

I thought Lord Manderly is dead now?... Anyone know?

ps. I'm Dolorous too. Lothston cause their sigil is a bat and I'm a little batty at times. :p hee hee Maybe we're related. :D

[Uldra I]

I don't believe Stannis will win for 2 reasons. The first is that If Stannis won decisively, the first thing he would do would be to cut down the Godswood of Winterfell. But that's like LF raping Sansa. Even GRRM has boundaries.

OMG! That is one of my pet theories.,. Don't get me started... too late. In short, LF will eventually take Sansa back to Winterfell to claim her birthright. LF will try to rape her, and Sansa will behead him. As far as who will win Winterfell, I think the Boltons and Freys have a hideous defeat coming. It will be amazing to read how GRRM works this out, but Stannis has to win so that LF can bring Sansa into her birthright... which he promised her. LF can accomplish amazing, even if slimy, things.

[Mourneblade]

So you don't think Stannis would cut down the Godswood? Do you also not think that Stannis is a petty small-minded bigot?

I should apologize. I said that Stannis was only useful as transport for Mel. But GRRM also uses the Stannis character to show the limitations of rigid thinking. Stannis can't build a coalition because he expects the whole realm to seek him out, lay their swords at his feet and kiss his ass. Only life ain't like that.

Jon may have taught Stannis a couple of charms, but I don't think he cured him of being an asshole.

Let me try a different tact. Stannis is not the hero of ASoIaF. He is a cautionary tale. GRRM would have to be a secret NAZI to hold Stannis up as the model of effective leadership. But for all his kinks, GRRM has more heart than that.

Stannis has changed his thinking on this. He now has built a coalition army from the mountain clans. I think he is no longer the Iron man that Noyal spoke of, but has slowly become a bit more flexible. He did not march on the Dreadfort, but instead took Jon's advice. He was going to kill Davos, but the Red Woman said he would need him, so he spared him.

I do not see Stannis burning Weirwoods, if he does he will lose the North instantly.

[AugustusCaesar]

Like someone else pointed out in the first page, Stannis will win the battle of WF but die in the process. I believe Stannis's character arc serves no purpose after the battle.

[Mourneblade]

Like someone else pointed out in the first page, Stannis will win the battle of WF but die in the process. I believe Stannis's character arc serves no purpose after the battle.

I disagree. I have a bad feeling that Shireen is going to be burned at the stake by her mother and Mel, and that is going to cause Stannis to "break". I believe he is going to die, but only after he kills his wife and Mel. Shireen is a sweatheart but is also Stannis's weakness, he loves that girl, even if he has trouble showing it, I hope I am wrong but the evidence has been building.

[The Drunkard]

<whole bunch of random stuff>

I think it's pretty clear that Stannis does not intend to burn the godswood, nor did Melisandre lose interest in Stannis the moment she set eyes on Jon. The first would be suicidally out of character, and the second is explicitly made untrue. I wasn't responding to your theories on GRRM's purpose for Stannis, so your apologies are unnecessary.

[Uldra I]

I disagree. I have a bad feeling that Shireen is going to be burned at the stake by her mother and Mel, and that is going to cause Stannis to "break". I believe he is going to die, but only after he kills his wife and Mel. Shireen is a sweatheart but is also Stannis's weakness, he loves that girl, even if he has trouble showing it, I hope I am wrong but the evidence has been building.

Didn't Shireen once have a dream, back in Dragonstone, that she was going to be eaten by a dragon? Found it :)

- from wiki-

II: 003 - Shireen’s Dream

"I had bad dreams," Shireen told him. "About the dragons. They were coming to eat me."

[AnotherCrannogman]

Has this been linked? Another poster put together a great video on his theory of the Bolton pink letter. Worth a watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwcuRwod0Xg&feature=youtu.be

[messem]

So you don't think Stannis would cut down the Godswood? Do you also not think that Stannis is a petty small-minded bigot?

Stannis is surrounded by Northmen who believe in the Old Gods. Burning the Godswood while they are present sounds like suicide mission.

[Winnief]

He wouldn't do that. That was his intention when he believed the North would unite under a legitimized Jon Stark and the king who saved the Wall, period, but after his talks with Jon he knows that it won't be so easy. Since then everything he's done has been with winning the Northmen over in mind, like feasting with the mountain clans and asking their support, driving the Ironborn out of Northern castles, and marching on Winterfell to fight the Boltons and rescue 'the Ned's little girl'. Burning the godswood would be counter to everything he's experienced since arriving at the Wall.

:agree:

I disagree. I have a bad feeling that Shireen is going to be burned at the stake by her mother and Mel, and that is going to cause Stannis to "break". I believe he is going to die, but only after he kills his wife and Mel. Shireen is a sweatheart but is also Stannis's weakness, he loves that girl, even if he has trouble showing it, I hope I am wrong but the evidence has been building.

Didn't Shireen once have a dream, back in Dragonstone, that she was going to be eaten by a dragon? Found it :)

I really hope Mourneblade is wrong, (though that may have been something the show was foreshadowing in "The Lion and the Rose,") because we're already going to lose Tommen and Myrcella and I don't know many more innocent children I can stand to see die. My hope is that Shireen's dream of a dragon, was actually foreshadowing her meeting Dany-or even marrying Jon and she just misinterpreted the dragon's intentions understandably enough. Hell being part Targ and born on Dragonstone she could be the third rider. I note that when teaching Davos to read on the show she picked books about dragons which could also be foreshadowing...or maybe they're just making Shireen as darling as possible to make her death hurt worse... :crying:

One thing I'm 100% positive about, is that Shireen won't be sacrificed by Stannis for any reason. He'll throw himself into the flames first. In fact its not impossible to envision Stannis at some point being asked to sacrifice himself for Shireen's future-and if so he won't hesitate.

[Mourneblade]

:agree:

I really hope Mourneblade is wrong, (though that may have been something the show was foreshadowing in "The Lion and the Rose,") because we're already going to lose Tommen and Myrcella and I don't know many more innocent children I can stand to see die. My hope is that Shireen's dream of a dragon, was actually foreshadowing her meeting Dany-or even marrying Jon and she just misinterpreted the dragon's intentions understandably enough. Hell being part Targ and born on Dragonstone she could be the third rider. I note that when teaching Davos to read on the show she picked books about dragons which could also be foreshadowing...or maybe they're just making Shireen as darling as possible to make her death hurt worse... :crying:

One thing I'm 100% positive about, is that Shireen won't be sacrificed by Stannis for any reason. He'll throw himself into the flames first. In fact its not impossible to envision Stannis at some point being asked to sacrifice himself for Shireen's future-and if so he won't hesitate.

100% agree about Stannis.

As far as Shireen, she is a living reminder of the failings of the mother in the mother's eyes to produce a healthy male heir. The mother is totally insane and has also been cold and cruel to Shireen. Then you have the Wildlings calling her a dead girl and believing she has full blown Grey Scale. Mel has shown she will do anything to hold onto her power/survive. With Jon out of the picture, hopefully temporarily, the Wildlings will be in control at the Wall. All hell is going to break loose. I really do not want to be right on this.

I came to this theory before last nights show, and I try to keep the show separate, but it just shoved it back into my thoughts. That was a very creepy scene.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Roose realizes he's in an unwinnable situation and will put the BOLT in Bolton, leaving everyone else hanging out to dry.