The Slaver's Bay Three

[ckal]

I have a feeling that during the battle of Meereen:

Barristan the Bold will die.

Victarion will live.

Tyrion will live.

It seems like Barristan is being set up to have a heart wrenching, noble, and knightly death. Victarion I think will surprise many and make it back to Westeros with Dany. Tyrion will live because if he died at this point, I don't think his death would hold that much impact to be quite honest. He needs to be in Westeros causing trouble with Varys, around people that hate him the most.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Teenagers always thinks Barristan will die simply because they think he’s “old”. That’s ridiculous. He’s only 63. That is only old for a front-line in-the-trenches warrior, not for a human. Generals are quite regularly that old, and Barristan is a general.

Barristan himself notes that the Green Grace is 20 years his senior and still going strong. The Queen of Thorns and the Late Lord Frey are no spring chickens, either. And there’s Maester Aemon, who was older still, not to mention his great-uncle Brynden Rivers.

Kids, sheesh!

[ckal]

Teenagers always thinks Barristan will die simply because they think he’s “old”. That’s ridiculous. He’s only 63. That is only old for a front-line in-the-trenches warrior, not for a human. Generals are quite regularly that old, and Barristan is a general.

Barristan himself notes that the Green Grace is 20 years his senior and still going strong. The Queen of Thorns and the Late Lord Frey are no spring chickens, either. And there’s Maester Aemon, who was older still, not to mention his great-uncle Brynden Rivers.

Kids, sheesh!

Haha, you silly old man.

No, I am not a teenager, but I'll gladly explain my opinion to you to discredit your generalizations. While reading Barristan's last couple chapters, GRRM clearly lets us into his mind and thoughts about himself and his age, even almost harboring doubts about himself, as well as the fact that he is in a dangerous situation. He himself is ready to die, and will stare down death and danger as I'm sure he always has done. But Barristan is in a peculiar situation right now in Meereen, where he will likely be granted the opportunity to prove himself as one of the greatest knights to ever live. Consistently he mentions that his time is drawing to a close, and he is even at the age where men fear to sleep too long as they may not rise again. Barristan will undoubtedly throw himself headlong into the battle, not sit back and be a general, and will lay down his life to protect his queen who will surely make an appearance.

It is always a possibility that he will not die here, but I feel this may be a likely scenario. Of course, GRRM doesn't do 'likely' so I may be wrong, and I like Barristan so I don't want to see him die. In the end, if Barristan dies, I don't think it will directly be because of his age. It will be about his honor as a knight, and indirectly his age in the idea that he has lived a long life, and is even more willingly to lay it down for his noble cause. Out of the three, he feels the most likely option to me, which was the point of this thread. It is possible that none of these three may die.

One thing I should note is that people of this time do not live nearly as long as people now days. The life expectancy in ASOIAF has always been indicated (to me at least) as being shorter than life expectancies we are used to in 2012, with the exception of some very old characters roaming around. 63 years old is not very old by today's standards, but back in medieval times which ASOIAF surely draws parallels from, 63 years old is very old.

[pitakon]

the life expectancy is shorter because people tend to kill each other a lot. Or that peasant's lives are generally worthless to nobles. So it is not really fair to compare to 2012 life expectancy.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

I know Ser Jorah Mormont isn't a POV character, but what do people think his odds are in surviving all this??

I hope he gets to return to Westeros and regain his family's honor by becoming LC of the Night's Watch. As to his odds of survival, who knows- its GRRM, anyone can die at anytime!

[7V3N]

the life expectancy is shorter because people tend to kill each other a lot. Or that peasant's lives are generally worthless to nobles. So it is not really fair to compare to 2012 life expectancy.

Nothing to do with modern medicine and hygiene or anything.

[ckal]

Nothing to do with modern medicine and hygiene or anything.

Yeah, I really don't have to go any further into it than this. It is pretty self explanatory, even when you look at the life expectancy in America over the last 200 years.

[The Undead Martyr]

Dammit, good and honorable does not (always) mean dumb!

The "kinds of characters" who die in the series don't die because of their morality- it's whether or not they have the strength to back it up, and also how "high profile" they are; sticking your neck out for others is a risk, but a suitably strong and clever survivor can get away with it, and sometimes even profit i.e. get a few loyal subordinates or street cred in the deal. Hence Barristan the badass bodyguard lives while Ned the failed politician dies.

Barristan's already shown that he can handle himself. The dude killed gold cloaks while unarmed and fled KL twice (once after sneaking back in), smuggled himself halfway across the world, splattered an assassin, snuck into a city via the old sewer trick (something as "stock" as that is probably a fool's gambit in ASOIAF) and kidnapped a king on his own.

He's not going down in the battle, nor for a while afterwards. In fact, if he dies, I'd say that he's going to die immediately before or after Dany, or outlive her, and her plot armor extends partially to him as well. This plus the whole "walking backstory revelation machine" (Lyanna and Rhaegar, perhaps?) and his own strength.

Victarion's a beast, and rather bull-headed; Moquorro is totally playing him, and Vic is probably not going to survive the game.

[7V3N]

I agree Vic won't last long, but my reasoning is different from everyone else's. In my ACOK reread, there is no description of Victarion when he is first introduced. Theon thinks of him as loyal and strong, but dim-witted and a follower. But no physical description, nor more than that bit of from Theon. Victarion was never meant to play a huge role, GRRM paid him little mind from the start. He is a temporary solution.

[IKE]

I agree Vic won't last long, but my reasoning is different from everyone else's. In my ACOK reread, there is no description of Victarion when he is first introduced. Theon thinks of him as loyal and strong, but dim-witted and a follower. But no physical description, nor more than that bit of from Theon.

Good eye! I've always wondered why we haven't had a description of the guy yet. Perhaps saving it for and POV who encounters him. Selmy, Dany, Tyrion? From what I remember of Vic's first chapter is his physical description was about his kraken helmet and multilayered, tapered cape meant to look like kraken arms

[TheeMikeHoncho]

Barristan is in dire straits after his bad choices in Meereen.

Victarion, however, is in the thrall of both Moqorro and Euron, so his future does not look too bright. Well, not in a healthy way anyway.

to be fair, Barristans choices are not his own, they are what he thought dany would do.

[Lord Damian]

Tyrion will not die, not yet. Tyrion will most likely take Barristan's place as advisor and victarion will die with Selmy.

[Rains]

Martin pretty much openly admitted that Barristan as a POV was his way out of the Mereen knot. (I think it was that google question submission interview). . .

He said something that he intends the battle to be observed from multiple angles, obviously he needed someone inside Mereen to get that perspective. I think we'll get no Vic POVs until after the battle, with an exceptional revelation (he rescued/kidnapped Dany, or tamed a dragon through Moqorro, something unexpected).

What I don't want is another Tyrion melee POV. For such a small guy he's already had too much luck surviving melees (Green Fork, Blackwater wreckage bridge). It's going to break some realism for him to make out on another imo. Hopefully he's smart enough to sit this one out.

Tyrion with an axe can defeat Khal Drogo and Barristan Selmy in a heartbeat.

[ViserionsFire]

Tyrion will not die, not yet. Tyrion will most likely take Barristan's place as advisor and victarion will die with Selmy.

Barristan's been around since Jaehaerys making his POV's the ones most likely to shed light on past events and people. Also, it would be interesting to see the meeting that takes place between Tyrion and him and his reaction to Aegon and those close to him. It would also be interesting to get his reaction after finding that Illyrio was working behind the scenes on Aegon's behalf and if he could determine the reason why Illyio is so interested. I think old Barristan will be around for quite awhile.

[SerGrahamando ofUttershill]

the life expectancy is shorter because people tend to kill each other a lot. Or that peasant's lives are generally worthless to nobles. So it is not really fair to compare to 2012 life expectancy.

Life expectancy is really low due to high infant mortality. Anyone making it out of childhood has a good chance of living to a ripe old age, especially among the nobility. This is why the wildlings refuse to name babies until they reach a certain age, for example.

I don't think any of the 3 will die in the battle, but the journey back to Westeros could be interesting.

[BannermanOfDorne]

I feel like Moqorro is just playing with Victarion and once he's off that ship he will get rid of Victarion.

Somehow I really don't see Victarion surviving the oncoming battle..

[Rains]

I feel like Moqorro is just playing with Victarion and once he's off that ship he will get rid of Victarion.

Somehow I really don't see Victarion surviving the oncoming battle..

I don't see why he has to kill Vic. Moqorro wants to get to Dany, yes, but Vic presents no threat to one who has Dragons. Hell, he might be saying the truth, though I doubt it.

[Stark@heart]

I think Vic will get his glory when he smashes Mereene and the Vols coming up behind him.

Tyrion is looking for a way to get the Second Sons on Dany's side again and at the end of ADWD, the Green Grace ( likely the Harpie) has just returned from making Barristan's offer to the Yuks and supposedly - the sellsword captains too - of each hostages weight in gold in for their safe return. Before she can tell Barristan what they said, the Brazen Beasts come in to tell him about the trenchbuckets. Tyrions's best chance to be Dany's friend just fell into his lap. Save her other fav people as he's already saved her Bear.

But he doesn't have much time - unless Vic and his fleet distract the Yuks before they can launch anyone.

Vic saves her city and also gives her a way to control her other dragons - and he'll kill King Huzzy -

[The Lanky Umber]

Out of these 3, i'd say Vic..in some cheap, unfair death by either Euron, or at least by his orders. Another plot technique to lower our opinions of the crows eye

[SerLoin]

All three will live.

1. Dropped Selmy POV, but he lives.

2. Vic. survives because Dany needs a fleet admiral now that Groleo is dead. Just placing a random sailor in command would be idiotic. His POV can be told by others or pepperd throughout.

3. Tyrion will survive because of all the unanswered questions...not that all will be wrapped in a nice bow when aSoIaF is done, but enough to be entertaining. Tyrion is going to be Dany's greatest ally as long as they need each other...when they don't all bets are off. I see Tyrion ending up as Dany's hand of the queen.

3b. I hope Tyrion POV is not eliminated just for comedic value.

4. Jaime/Brienne are together that eliminates 1 POV. :bang: