Arya may kill Dany?

[danm_999]

Any war against slavery and human traffic is justifiable. Dany greatest mistake is that she was too soft. What happened in Yunkai is partially her fault, but she didnt do on purpose, it was clearly a mistake but i dont think anyone deserves to die for freeing people just because the freed slaves couldnt fix their society by themselves...

Dany's "good intentions" in sacking two major cities and turning their economies and stability upside down has caused more plague, death and misery than Ramsay Snow could in a 1000 years, even if her intentions were altruistic.

[butterbumps!]

Mirri made a joke about her dead, deformed child and Dany understood that it was part of the curse she did on Rhaego. Imo Mirri was right for trying to kill Drogo for what he did, but Rheago was an inocent child and didnt deserved to die like that. Mirri's execution was perfecly justifiable.

Making life in slavers bay worse is matter of perspective, she still has thousands of slaves on her side and rooting for her. So even if things arent perfect, most of the people she freed are happier than before. Also the fact that she is probably the most proeminent anti-slavery figure in the history of Essos makes it clear that if she just dies things will be even worse for slaves all over the world.

Ok, I wasn't arguing for her death. There's just a few active threads that discuss the pros and cons of Dany's leadership, and sundry hate threads, so I was trying to quickly summarize the issues that led people to wish her death so that it didn't become a big discussion. If anyone keeps arguing about whether or not she deserves to die in some kind of "objective" sense, this is going to turn into a Dany Hate thread with the same 10 or so arguments going back and forth, which isn't really the scope of this thread.

[E-Ro]

Allright. Let's do this

By what right/power does Dany have to "sentence" someone to death? She was queen of nothing at the time of Mirri's death despite her many delusions to the contrary. In the words of Gandalf do not be so quick to deal out death and judgement. She also burned Mirri for the blood magic needed in reviving the dragons. If you call Stannis out for the shadowbabies you have to call out Dany for this. You can't have it both ways. Mirri was also found by Daenerys being raped by Khal Drogo's men while the corpses of her friends, family and people lay about her. Yeah yeah Daenerys "rescued" her and then gave her and the other women the awesome perk of getting to marry the men who just killed their husbands. Great gal!

160 some oddd crucifixitions with ZERO proof. Impetuous, impulsive, and wrong.

Sacks Yunkai then leaves Yunkai almost immediately. Though she "freed" the slaves the institution of slavery returned almost immediately after she left. She was just a hurricane that rolled through and left a ton of destruction in her wake then let the people clean up.

Sacks Astapor: See Yunkai

Sacks Meereen: then proceeds to absolutely and unequivocally run meereen into the ground. Seriously read the Meereen chapters, It's a wasteand. That city is riddled with disease, death, murders, unrest, and political strife and Dany is DIRECTLY responsible. She is simply an ineffectual ruler.

Orders Tortures: see impulsivity

Should I keep goin? Is that enough?

No, all of this is ok because she is blood of the dragon, dont you get it.

[Grimwolfe]

i swear most of her slaves are worse of due to their living conditions being much worse free, with no stable income of food as they now have to fend for themselves essentially rather than having masters provide everything for them. But thats going off topic.

Arya not being sent as she's a new recruit is besides the point really, it's clear she's advancing much faster than is usual, even the kindly man seems surprised at times. And i'm not really sure the faceless men have 'ranks' as it were, they may al be equal as soon as they've finished training.

[Kanon]

Counterpoint; anybody in Astapor.

She didnt kill anyone inocent in astapor, the fact that they couldnt solve their own problems is something Dany shouldve forseen. But its not like she did with any malice and she dosent deserve death for it...

[danm_999]

She didnt kill anyone inocent in astapor, the fact that they couldnt solve their own problems is something Dany shouldve forseen. But its not like she did with any malice and she dosent deserve death for it...

Intention becomes irrelevant. She's getting thousands of people killed because she believes she knows better.

[danm_999]

i swear most of her slaves are worse of due to their living conditions being much worse free, with no stable income of food as they now have to fend for themselves essentially rather than having masters provide everything for them. But thats going off topic.

Arya not being sent as she's a new recruit is besides the point really, it's clear she's advancing much faster than is usual, even the kindly man seems surprised at times. And i'm not really sure the faceless men have 'ranks' as it were, they may al be equal as soon as they've finished training.

It's interesting Arya uses exactly the same technique to kill the insurer as Jaqen does to kill Pate.

A girl seems to learn quickly.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya hasn't proven loyalty or reliability really. She's made one kill for them. GRRM could do it for textual reasons but to me it wouldn't make the FM look good to send her to do it. It takes years apparently to learn just how to do the glamour.

I do think that she will be sent to kill either Illyrio or someone in Pentos. In ADWD the KM told her to learn the language of Pentos. I believe that Bloodraven led her to see and overhear Illyrio's convo with Varys about killing Ned by means of Rhaenys' black tom cat with the torn ear that led her down there.

Dany may have a link to Pentos too with the Tattered Prince and she will want to know why she wasn't informed of Aegon. It also makes sense for her to pit stop in the place where she started.

Arya will kill one of House Targaryen's enemies and then become apart of Dany's entourage. I think Bloodraven has been watching her and plans to use her.

[StannisBamfatheon]

No, all of this is ok because she is blood of the dragon, dont you get it.

AND SHE WILL TAKE WHAT IS HERS!!! WITH FIRE AND BLOOD AND CAPS LOCK!!!

[E-Ro]

My intention when robbing that bank the other day was not to kill anyone I just wanted some extra cash to feed my family, so you cant send me to jail because my intentions were good.

[David Selig]

Don't you guys ever get tired of the Dany bashing? It's really repetitive...

[E-Ro]

Dont blame us blame grrm for making her so easy to dislike.

[butterbumps!]

Dont blame us blame grrm for making her so easy to dislike.

Right, but the thread isn't really about whether or not Dany deserves to die or is a bad leader. There are many individuals and groups in the ASOIAF universe who want Dany dead independently of whether the readers believe that Dany should be killed, and I thought teasing out the who and why was the intention of the OP.

Anyway, on topic. If Dany is to be murdered at some point, I do think that a child would be quite logical and in character-- there's a lot of text devoted to her unquestioning trust of children, as well as the fact that Varys has a network of child spies that are able to infiltrate because no one ever suspects them. I can't see how or why Arya would be the one to do it, but I suspect that if a murder attempt will be made on Dany, I bet a child will be behind it.

[danm_999]

Right, but the thread isn't really about whether or not Dany deserves to die or is a bad leader. There are many individuals and groups in the ASOIAF universe who want Dany dead independently of whether the readers believe that Dany should be killed, and I thought teasing out the who and why was the intention of the OP.

Anyway, on topic. If Dany is to be murdered at some point, I do think that a child would be quite logical and in character-- there's a lot of text devoted to her unquestioning trust of children, as well as the fact that Varys has a network of child spies that are able to infiltrate because no one ever suspects them. I can't see how or why Arya would be the one to do it, but I suspect that if a murder attempt will be made on Dany, I bet a child will be behind it.

I've seen a few fan theories that Arya would wear Missandei's face.

[Kanon]

Allright. Let's do this

By what right/power does Dany have to "sentence" someone to death? She was queen of nothing at the time of Mirri's death despite her many delusions to the contrary. In the words of Gandalf do not be so quick to deal out death and judgement. She also burned Mirri for the blood magic needed in reviving the dragons. If you call Stannis out for the shadowbabies you have to call out Dany for this. You can't have it both ways. Mirri was also found by Daenerys being raped by Khal Drogo's men while the corpses of her friends, family and people lay about her. Yeah yeah Daenerys "rescued" her and then gave her and the other women the awesome perk of getting to marry the men who just killed their husbands. Great gal!

She was Khaleesi the queen of the Dothraki, that gives her as much "right" as any king (including Stannis) to deal justice on others. I dont really blame Stannis for what he did so i dont know why youre bringing him up. I never said Mirri was wrong for killing Drogo, but she murdered Rheago, an innocent boy, to complete her revenge. To me that makes her execuion justifiable. And dont forget Dany freed every one after Drogo died, the only reason she made a deal with the rapists was because that was the best she could do at the moment.

Sacks Yunkai then leaves Yunkai almost immediately. Though she "freed" the slaves the institution of slavery returned almost immediately after she left. She was just a hurricane that rolled through and left a ton of destruction in her wake then let the people clean up.

Its unfortunate the the yunkai/astaporian couldnt fix their lives by themselves after Dany saved them, but is not her fault. If you give money to a random beggar, and later discover that he died from drug use, that dosent make you guilty of murder. Daenerys didnt know those people would be so incable of using the freedom in a positive way, but she was not responsible for their fate.

Sacks Meereen: then proceeds to absolutely and unequivocally run meereen into the ground. Seriously read the Meereen chapters, It's a wasteand. That city is riddled with disease, death, murders, unrest, and political strife and Dany is DIRECTLY responsible. She is simply an ineffectual ruler.

Orders Tortures: see impulsivity

Being an inefectual ruler (and i agree that she made many mistakes in Meeren) dosent mean she deserves death, she made mistakes (many) but so did several characters in the story (Jon, Stannis, Robb, Catelyn) that lead to greater problems for their subjects.

ETA: As E-ro and other pointed out the slaves are happy? really? Astapor and Yunkai are the two most miserable places in the entire UNIVERSE. Would you be happier starving and carrying "the bloody flux"

She didnt make the Yunkai/Astaporian miserable, they did it to themselves. I would defnetly be happier dying free than beeing a slave to a gentle master...

[Kanon]

Still havent adressed the torture, or is that justifiable as well because she is blood of the dragon and does what she wants?

Torture is justifiable because she is in the middle of a war, if you think she deserves death because of it you should say the same for for Bush and Obama and half of the USA

[butterbumps!]

I've seen a few fan theories that Arya would wear Missandei's face.

Yea, I've seen that speculated too. I suppose I wonder what the architecture behind this plan might be? Who might know of Missendei's close connection to Dany, and how might that information be relayed back to the FM? It would have to be someone in Dany's close counsel...just trying to think of who might have access to that kind of information other than Barristan, the Green Grace, Shavepate, Reznak, Hizdahr. (ETA: I know the GG is the Harpy, and that everyone other than Barristan would sell her out, so I'm not suggesting that they should be trusted. Just wondering who might have cooked it up if it's true).

To be honest though, there have been times I'd wondered if Missendei could be a plant all along.

[tws1978]

i swear most of her slaves are worse of due to their living conditions being much worse free, with no stable income of food as they now have to fend for themselves essentially rather than having masters provide everything for them. But thats going off topic.

Except the slaves disagree. They still love her. We know nothing about the living condition of slaves except some commentary from Tyrion (who got luck to have a fairly tolerable master but even under him he and Penny would already be dead) and what Dany was explained by Jorah and Missandei. We saw some innocent babies being stolen and murdered so the Unsullied can be train and some more cruelly hurt merely as warning for Dany to leave Mereen alone and there seems to be remains of tortured slaves everywhere she goes. so I think even simple dead while still having some hope for the future is more than enough for the slaves to join her. Not the lucky ones who are specially trained and treated as valuables by their masters, but the majority.

Even when the situation look bad right now all revolutions need time. Things will not get better overnight but if Dany and/or Baristan and co. manage to win the batle over Meereen and crush the blocade there is no reason to doubt things will get better. The plants will regrow, the economy transform and the slaves will find their place in the society.

[danm_999]

Torture is justifiable because she is in the middle of a war, if you think she deserves death because of it you should say the same for for Bush and Obama and half of the USA

The US tortured people it suspected were terrorists.

Daenerys had the Shavepate torture a wineseller's daughter, even though she and the Shavepate knew the daughter had nothing to do with the Sons of the Harpies.

[Darth Rivers]

It'd be awesome, but GRRM is too cheesy a writer for that. We'll have Dany beat the Others, and live happily ever after with Jon or Daario or whatever other sexually appealing male supporter of hers.