Mance/Jon Or the Effects of Overanalysis

[Winter's Knight]

A little something for Tagganaro and Butterbumps.

After Nedbert and Willas/Oberyn, I now bring you the hidden subtext that implies Mance/Jon.

Lets take this step-by-step, shall we?

When Ygritte meets Jon, one of the first things she tells him is:

“I’m Jon Snow.”

She flinched. “An evil name",

Why an evil name? Jon thinks it's because "Snow" is a bastard name but we later find out that Wildlings do not have any moral qualms about bastards. Keep it in mind.

Next, she tells him the story of Bael the Bard and how he stole a daughter of Winterfell.

Next comes this exchange:

“You never killed a woman before, did you?” When he shook his head, she said, “We die the same as men. But you don’t need to do it.Mance would take you, I know he would. "

Why though? She can't surely believe that Mance'd agree to take in a green boy, too soft to kill a known enemy?

Unless of course Mance has a weakness for long, slender bastards.

It is revealed that Mance was present at WF when King Robert came to fetch Ned and that he sang for the feast. It is not too much of a stretch to assume that he saw Jon

Now, I put it to you that Mance was smitten by Jon, that he came back and talked about him. Perhaps he fell for Dalla on the rebound and is not really in love. Hence Ygritte's remarking that it's an evil name. Then her avowal that that Mance would welcome Jon.

Not much on it's own, but there's more.

Then, when he first meets Mance, Tormund mentions that

“See, lad, that’s why he’s king and I’m not. I can outdrink, outfight, and outsing him, and my member’s thrice the size o’ his, but Mance has cunning.

I shall make just two minor points:

1. Wildling rarely undress, so Tormund's having had an opportunity to make a comparison is interesting.
   
2. One of his titles is Hornblower.
   

Then Mance tells Jon that he knows his face, having seen him twice. Once as a crow when Jon was a child and once at the aforementioned feast.

There is also Mance's continuing to trust Jon, despite finding out that the boy's been lying to him.

“Crow,” the Magnar warned, “do not take me for Mance Rayder. If you lie to me, I will have your tongue.”

So says Jarl. There is a general feeling that Mance won't harm the boy-why? Wildlings, like the Dothraki respect strength-if this was how Mance usually dealt with the freefolk, he'd not be a king for long.

“The Mance’s pet must want a sword,” the Magnar said, shading his eyes.

It is recognised that Mance has a special "thing" for Jon.

So, what can I say? Mance certainly seems to be harbouring feelings for Jon, even if they're not reciprocated.

[StarkWhite]

Over analysis

[brashcandy]

Brilliant as usual WK. And the feelings are clearly reciprocated. Was it not Mance's baby that Jon made sure was safe and protected away from the Wall?

[Ser Hippie]

Over analysis

I agree, something this obvious doesn't really require that much analysis to be demonstrated.

[Winter's Knight]

Brilliant as usual WK. And the feelings are clearly recipr

ocated. Was it not Mance's baby that Jon made sure was safe and protected away from the Wall?

:dunce:

D'oh! How could I forget? This clearly explains his otherwise pointless baby-swap-thanks Brash!

ETA that I forgot to mention in the OP that the second time Mance sees Jon is the same time that Robert finally snaps and comes to fetch Ned away.

Coincidence?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Or, "How To Stay Warm When Winters Last Decades."

[jarl the climber]

Well Qhorin did tell Jon to do anything it took to get Mances trust. He decided to send Jon away after he found out that he was doinking Ygriite, maybe out of jealousy, and anger. He knew the Magnar would kill him for disloyalty and did not trust him.

[E-Ro]

I enjoyed this. On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it an 8.5, Just one question what is willas oberyn? I have not heard of them being good freinds.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I enjoyed this. On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it an 8.5, Just one question what is willas oberyn? I have not heard of them being good freinds.

Oberyn is sort of responsible for Willas Tyrell being a cripple. But Willas forgave him and they were supposed to be sort of friends. Also, Willas is not married and Oberyn supposedly jousted on both sides of the barrier. So, you know.

[Tagganaro]

lol. You're the best WK.

No analysis of the brawl in the practice yard that ends with Mance kneeing Jon in the nuts? I haven't seen Jon that happy in the whole book series. Clearly something there. Overanalysis? No way.

[Winter's Knight]

I enjoyed this. On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it an 8.5, Just one question what is willas oberyn? I have not heard of them being good freinds.

Thanks and here you go.

[E-Ro]

Oberyn is sort of responsible for Willas Tyrell being a cripple. But Willas forgave him and they were supposed to be sort of friends. Also, Willas is not married and Oberyn supposedly jousted on both sides of the barrier. So, you know.

Oh, well thank you for explaining. You know whats funny, that is actually more probable then some crackpots I have seen during my time here. People are crazy.

[Winter's Knight]

lol. You're the best WK.

No analysis of the brawl in the practice yard that ends with Mance kneeing Jon in the nuts? I haven't seen Jon that happy in the whole book series. Clearly something there. Overanalysis? No way.

I have no access to Dance at the moment. Thanks for pointing that out!

[brashcandy]

:dunce:

D'oh! How could I forget? This clearly explains his otherwise pointless baby-swap-thanks Brash!

You're welcome.

ETA that I forgot to mention in the OP that the second time Mance sees Jon is the same time that Robert finally snaps and comes to fetch Ned away.

Coincidence?

No way. The same storm of passion that was swirling around Robert and Ned at this point obviously impacted Mance. And let's not forget folks: Mance is a bard: a singer of love songs. He plays the lute at the feast helping to set the mood for the epic romance of Nedbert and his own growing attraction to Ned's bastard son.

[butterbumps!]

May the Seven bless you, WK. Thank you for finally bringing this incredibly important issue to the public's attention, and perhaps we can finally put all those ideas of "Jon and Dany: saviors of the world" to rest.

[Garlan Marius]

You had me at Willas/ Oberyn and Nedbert. Not here.

[brashcandy]

You had me at Willas/ Oberyn and Nedbert. Not here.

My friend, open your mind. What do you think Mance is short for? Romance.

[Garlan Marius]

My friend, open your mind. What do you think Mance is short for? Romance.

I just don't see Jon cheating on Satin with the Mance. My whole picture of the character is based on their monogamy. A monogamy that that... that.... Sally-on-the-side YGRITTE polluted when Jon was obligated to do "all that was asked."

[brashcandy]

I just don't see Jon cheating on Satin with the Mance. My whole picture of the character is based on their monogamy. A monogamy that that... that.... Sally-on-the-side YGRITTE polluted when Jon was obligated to do "all that was asked."

Ah, I understand. But in all fairness to roMance, he was there first.

[Brony Stark]

Mance obviously felt a deep love for Jon when he saw him at the feast. He remembered him, a lowly bastard, from the feast at Winterfell. And after Tormund and Mance broke off their relationship (how else did he know the size of his member) he took solace in the slender solemn boy after watching some NedBert.