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Bolton/Stark Conflict


The Snowman

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I seem to recall that Old Nan told Bran at some point that the Night's King was either a Stark or a Bolton, although I can't remember the exact line.

Yes, thats why i said 'especially'. She said bolton yet umber, magnar, flint, woodfood, norrey said too, yet some people want to remember only bolton part.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King

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  • 1 year later...

yea why wouldn't they call themselves Kings?

 

They would probably be considered "Petty Kings", which was a title used in some places for rulers of lands that would normally be called independent duchies or even counties to distinguish them from "true" kings.  The high lordship of the Dreadfort is the equivalent of a duchy.  If Karhold was theirs as well at some point, they would be considered a "Grand Duchy", which is when one ruler has the equivalent of two duchies.  The more recent meaning of "kingdom" came to mean a ruler over 3 or more duchies (which the Starks definitely do), but  originally it was pretty much anybody who ruled lands and didn't have a liege lord and wanted to call themselves a king.

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^That's a hell of a necro...

 

 

They would probably be considered "Petty Kings", which was a title used in some places for rulers of lands that would normally be called independent duchies or even counties to distinguish them from "true" kings.  The high lordship of the Dreadfort is the equivalent of a duchy.  If Karhold was theirs as well at some point, they would be considered a "Grand Duchy", which is when one ruler has the equivalent of two duchies.  The more recent meaning of "kingdom" came to mean a ruler over 3 or more duchies (which the Starks definitely do), but  originally it was pretty much anybody who ruled lands and didn't have a liege lord and wanted to call themselves a king.

 

I think if they were considered the greatest rivals to the Kings of Winter and the last Northern House to be subdued then the Boltons were more than just petty Kings. 

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I think it's worth considering that without the internecine conflict with the Boltons over the last few centuries, the Starks became a bunch of blithering idiots.

Without the Boltons keeping them honest, the Starks forgot their own words, turned their eyes south and just generally became one of the biggest bunch of rubes in the 7 kingdoms.

The Boltons are absolutely essential to the welfare of mankind. Without them, Jon, Arya and Bran would probably march into the heart of winter to tell the Night's King that they knew his plans and "he had better cut it out right now, Mister."
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I think it's worth considering that without the internecine conflict with the Boltons over the last few centuries, the Starks became a bunch of blithering idiots.

Without the Boltons keeping them honest, the Starks forgot their own words, turned their eyes south and just generally became one of the biggest bunch of rubes in the 7 kingdoms.

The Boltons are absolutely essential to the welfare of mankind. Without them, Jon, Arya and Bran would probably march into the heart of winter to tell the Night's King that they knew his plans and "he had better cut it out right now, Mister."

 

Roose is the hero Westeros needs, but not the one it deserves. He is a silent protector, a watchful guardian

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Check out the heresy threads. They have discussed this in length and come up with some interesting theories as to why the title changed.



Dreadfort hasn't been conquered that we know of. When they rebelled the last time the Starks and their force laid siege to the Dreadfort and the Bolton surrendered before starving out.

If you surrendered aren't you conquered? At that point can't the Stark king basically set whatever conditions he wants?
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Roose is the hero Westeros needs, but not the one it deserves. He is a silent protector, a watchful guardian

A case can be made. Rivalry has value. There's a reason teams scrimmage. There's a reason states conduct war games. Preparedness is essential for dealing with real conflict. Practice makes perfect as they say.

The Starks forgot themselves.

They spent training camp sippin margaritas and chasing tail.

The Boltons came out in preseason and mopped the floor with them. Sure they lost some guys for the season. But they were out of shape and toxic to adhering to the team's goals in the locker room, the Starks are better off. This was the wake up call they didn't know they needed.
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