Is Jon Snow the true hero of this series?

[chris_cam84]

Hes one of them. I think until the red wedding Rob was kind of the hero.The good king fighting for his people, trying to rescue his sisters and avenge his father, didnt even want to rule, just wanted to do what was right,marries for love no matter what people think. We see what happened to him.The hero dies grrm style, hopefully not jon too what a shitty cliffhanger

[Lion of Judah]

He is not the hero, he is a hero. I doubt Jon can save the 7 kingdoms from the wights and itself all alone.

[Bronze_Yohn_Royce]

well so far it would seem he is the only one who can unite the whole realm. King of the North, Lord Commander of the Night's watch, King of Iron throne, and King of Wildlings. so. yeah. plus hes not a virgin.

King of the Wildlings?

[Scipio Africanus]

King of the Wildlings?

In Mance's abscence he basically is the King of the Wildlings. He brokers the marriage pact between the Thens and Alyse Karstark, and offers to lead Tormund's army against the Boltons, besides ordering a relief of Hardhome which is filled with Wildling refugees. Pretty much defacto a warleader ergo king.

In fact of all the titles Jonny can earn I'd say he's closest to becoming Mance's succesor. If he survives WoW. Which is something no one can predict.

[Lion of Judah]

In Mance's abscence he basically is the King of the Wildlings. He brokers the marriage pact between the Thens and Alyse Karstark, and offers to lead Tormund's army against the Boltons, besides ordering a relief of Hardhome which is filled with Wildling refugees. Pretty much defacto a warleader ergo king.

In fact of all the titles Jonny can earn I'd say he's closest to becoming Mance's succesor. If he survives WoW. Which is something no one can predict.

I hope you are right and he brings the wildlings into the kingdom of the north. It makes sense.

[Groat]

I believe GRRM has stated that the others are not the de facto ultimate evil everyone is making them out to be. They are a race of people, just like humans or the CotF, who have their own agendas and beliefs.

What has always bothered me about Jon is he is Ice, compared to Dany who is fire. Jon has the Stark look, he goes North to the Ice wall at the beginning of the story. There is no other character who could possibly be ice, it has to be Jon. I do however, believe that R+L=J, and as someone stated above, there is a lot of imagery of Jon having fire, so he is part ice and part fire? Then who is ice if Dany is fire?

Also, the whole Stark family is set up as being on the Ice side of things, similar to how Targs are fire. Not only that, but the Starks are clearly supposed to be the protagonists, right from the get go. We love The Ned and all his kids. If the Starks are the good guys though, and they are Ice, then what role will the others play? Something to consider, dragons seem just as destructive, if not more so, then the others and the wights.

My final thought, singing is always coming up in the story has how magic is performed, muliplte times. You cast spells, so to speak, by singing them. The title "A Song of Ice and Fire" could mean no more than the return of magic of ice and fire. There is no good and evil, there are no heros and villains, its simply a story about a universe stuck in a recursive history where magic has come back.

[David C. Hunter]

I believe GRRM has stated that the others are not the de facto ultimate evil everyone is making them out to be. They are a race of people, just like humans or the CotF, who have their own agendas and beliefs.

What has always bothered me about Jon is he is Ice, compared to Dany who is fire. Jon has the Stark look, he goes North to the Ice wall at the beginning of the story. There is no other character who could possibly be ice, it has to be Jon. I do however, believe that R+L=J, and as someone stated above, there is a lot of imagery of Jon having fire, so he is part ice and part fire? Then who is ice if Dany is fire?

Also, the whole Stark family is set up as being on the Ice side of things, similar to how Targs are fire. Not only that, but the Starks are clearly supposed to be the protagonists, right from the get go. We love The Ned and all his kids. If the Starks are the good guys though, and they are Ice, then what role will the others play? Something to consider, dragons seem just as destructive, if not more so, then the others and the wights.

My final thought, singing is always coming up in the story has how magic is performed, muliplte times. You cast spells, so to speak, by singing them. The title "A Song of Ice and Fire" could mean no more than the return of magic of ice and fire. There is no good and evil, there are no heros and villains, its simply a story about a universe stuck in a recursive history where magic has come back.

To answer your Question, I believe Bran is the antithesis to Dany and Jon is both Ice and Fire, the balance.

There is no good or bad in this series. Odds are Tyrion and Jon will be on opposite sides and I wil be rooting for both(Not really, Im a northerner)

Look up the Battle of Troy and look to see who is the good side and who is the bad.

I also agree that yea, the Others are not the baddies everyone thinks they are

[Groat]

To answer your Question, I believe Bran is the antithesis to Dany and Jon is both Ice and Fire, the balance.

Bran takes after his mother in looks, and is more associated with trees / earth. Plus his wolf is named Summer. If we're operating under the idea that Dany is fire, I think Jon would fit the bill more as ice that Bran. Just my opinion though.

There is no good or bad in this series. Odds are Tyrion and Jon will be on opposite sides and I wil be rooting for both(Not really, Im a northerner)

Look up the Battle of Troy and look to see who is the good side and who is the bad.

Agree with all that. I'm even skeptical there will be this war between the others and Dany and her dragons. Something to consider, the story so far has covered 3 years? I think? Assuming the books end with Spring, and the chronological pase stays the same, this upcoming winter to end all winters is only going to last a year at most?

I love your analogy of the battle of Troy, a much better representation than LoTR. Instead of Aragorn, lets say Jon is Hector, and Dany is Achiles, sounds much more accurate.

[David C. Hunter]

Bran takes after his mother in looks, and is more associated with trees / earth. Plus his wolf is named Summer. If we're operating under the idea that Dany is fire, I think Jon would fit the bill more as ice that Bran. Just my opinion though.

Agree with all that. I'm even skeptical there will be this war between the others and Dany and her dragons. Something to consider, the story so far has covered 3 years? I think? Assuming the books end with Spring, and the chronological pase stays the same, this upcoming winter to end all winters is only going to last a year at most?

I love your analogy of the battle of Troy, a much better representation than LoTR. Instead of Aragorn, lets say Jon is Hector, and Dany is Achiles, sounds much more accurate.

True, but looks can be deceiving and as of today Bran is being trained by all intents and purpose, the Great Other, at least according to Mel.

I personally believe the story will end in Winter. It fits with the theme and style of the book

[xXTywinPizza420Xx]

I don't like the idea of Jon as King. I'm not even sure if I like him as Targaryen.

It doesn't work for me, if Jon was conceived via the union of Lyanna and Rheagar

then why doesn't Varys know about it? He knows everything else... seems like

he would have picked up on it. But lets say Jon is Rheagars, for the sake of

argument.

So, why would he be king? He refused the title of Warden of the North and the

name Stark. What would motivate him to accept the title of King and name

Targaryen? Jon never desired wealth or power that's what makes him sympathetic,

he is more concerned with honor. He took the Black. If he forsook his vows to

become a king it would ruin his character.

I'm really hoping hes just dead or in a position where he cannot possibly ascend

the throne (like inside Ghost.)

[Scipio Africanus]

if Jon was conceived via the union of Lyanna and Rheagar

then why doesn't Varys know about it?

Because Varys is not omnipotent and allknowing. This has been confirmed by Martin. Varys doesn't know everything, and I highly doubt he ever knew where Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Gerold Hightower and Ser Oswell Whent were, let alone where Prince Rhaegar had gone off to. The closest Varys came to knowing was when Eddard wanted to write a letter to Jon, but Eddard never did when Varys blatantly announced he would read the contents.

If Varys did know, Jon would've been dead years and years ago. Varys (for so far we know) is prepping for Illyrio's pretender to take the throne and Jon would've been a threat even if it turned out Rhaegar and Lyanna were not married and Jon was born after Aegon.

I

So, why would he be king? He refused the title of Warden of the North and the

name Stark.

Because the package deal that was offered to him was from a foreign pretender with no power beyond the forces he had with him, and it decreed that he'd convert and actively destroy the religion of the Old Gods, which would upset the populace not to mention upset him personally as well (as the story progresses Jon is increasingly "devout" to the Old Gods - with Ghost as their avatar).

Jon never desired wealth or power

Yes he did. Before he realizes the threat of the Others (and does a little growing up) he was more or less jealous of Robb, because he'd get everything and he'd get a boot up his ass from Cat. His whole reasoning for joining the NW was to garner a bit of glory as he feared he'd get none just by being Eddard's bastard.

I think people will find he's perfectly open for positions of power. He realizes the threat of the Others however and once he saw the Wildlings as people he pretty much vowed to protect everyone from the menace.

I somehow doubt he'll ever be a king though but he is a leader type of guy.

[Skeksi]

I don't think that there is one single "lead character"/ "true hero" of the books. I believe there are certain characters who are amongst the main characters of the series (Jon, Dany and Tyrion being three of them, along with the three surviving Stark POVs, I would think), but I don't think that there is one single character that will emerge as the world- saving hero at the end.

ASOIAF has been set up, IMO, to have a lot of different story threads that still need resolution. The political battles in King's Landing, the separation of the Stark children, the threat from the Others, Dany's intentions to come and conquer Westeros. It's a series that doesn't constantly stray from fantasy cliches, but it has consistently tried to show us situations that are more than simple black and white, and hasn't simply relied on one character and one storyline. If anything, the plot that seems most important in the books is the politics of King's Landing, and the War of the 5 Kings. Not only have large amounts of the POV (and major non-POV) characters been located there at some point, but it even ties in to the lives of the characters who are not stationed there. Theon goes back to his father to try and negotiate him to Robb's side in the war, which leads to the events of his arc. Obviously the characters like Robb, Cat, Stannis and Davos are touched by these events, as contenders for the throne and their advisors. Stannis travels to the Wall, and saves the Night's Watch, because of Davos's advice, and because of his earlier defeats. Janos Slynt, a contender for Lord Commander, ends up at the Wall, because of the events in King's Landing. Whilst the events at the Wall will likely be very important to the story's eventual outcome, and will certainly play a sizeable role in the later books, I find it hard to believe that all the Southern politics will simply be put aside because "The Others were the real threat all along, and now Jon is going to save the world" (simplifying a bit there, but oh well). In short, I think that whilst Jon is certainly the main character in the storyline unfolding at the Wall, his distance from most of the events that have been taking place in the rest of the series (which have taken up much more of the series than the Wall chapters have) makes him an odd candidate for a main character.

I think that Jon has a lot in common with many typical fantasy heroes- he has warg powers and a sword, he is the underdog (but not quite so much the underdog that he is uneducated or untrained), he has risen to a position of power early in life, and most of all, he is the reluctant leader, which is something that most other characters in ASoIaF do not necessarily show. I can understand why people, if they are looking for one specific character to be the hero of the series, think that Jon is an obvious candidate. But at the end of the day, I think this is, more than anything else, a story about Westeros during this obviously turbulent time, and the effects that all of these things have upon the world. Not just a plucky underdog hero/ secret prince who defeats the bad guys and saves the world. And honestly, I don't see the need to look for one character to label "the hero" of the series, when to my mind, it's likely that there is no one specific character.

I hope that makes sense- in summary, I think Jon is the main character in the storyline at the Wall, I think he has been too distant from the events in King's Landing and the rest of the world to qualify as the single hero/ main character of the series. The same could be said about Dany, actually. I don't think that there is one single main character, I think there are several, as well as several prominent secondary characters, with storylines to resolve/ enemies to fight. It's a different setup from a lot of traditional fantasy, where there is one hero, (possibly aided by sidekicks, mentors and love interests) and one set of villains. It has already expanded beyond that point.

And yes, I feel that I should admit, I'm not a huge Jon fan, but I have managed to prevent myself from talking about how these books are totally all Littlefinger's show, so I've tried to leave all my biases at the door :P

[David C. Hunter]

I mean there are MAIN characters: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran.

I tend to look at the main characters as the legacy of Ned Stark and the legacy of Rhaegar Targaryran and the prophecy that unites their descendants.

So that means: Dany, Jon, Bran, Arya, Sansa and possibly Rickon if he starts getting POVS

Tyrion is a main character, because he is GRRMs favorite.

Side characters are like: Samwell, Jaime, Brienne, Asha, etc

Characters that have a lot of potential are those like: Theon, Arianne Martell

[Schwitey]

Aren't both Jon Snow and Daenerys Targareyn the heroes as in A Song of Ice (Jon Snow) & Fire (Daenerys Targareyn)?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Aren't both Jon Snow and Daenerys Targareyn the heroes as in A Song of Ice (Jon Snow) & Fire (Daenerys Targareyn)?

Except that Jon is also both and Dany is not. Fire (Rhaegar) and Ice (Lyanna).

[Dolorous Nedd]

I don't like the idea of Jon as King. I'm not even sure if I like him as Targaryen.

It doesn't work for me, if Jon was conceived via the union of Lyanna and Rheagar

then why doesn't Varys know about it? He knows everything else... seems like

he would have picked up on it. But lets say Jon is Rheagars, for the sake of

argument.

So, why would he be king? He refused the title of Warden of the North and the

name Stark. What would motivate him to accept the title of King and name

Targaryen? Jon never desired wealth or power that's what makes him sympathetic,

he is more concerned with honor. He took the Black. If he forsook his vows to

become a king it would ruin his character.

I'm really hoping hes just dead or in a position where he cannot possibly ascend

the throne (like inside Ghost.)

A couple of ways Jon could get out of his vows with the NW are...

1. The NW is dissolved (some believe the Wall will fall)

2. Jon actually dies and is brought back (huge gray area if that would let him off)

You have to wonder why Bloodraven and Melisandre seem to have such a vested interest in Jon if he's not going to achieve something very big. It also seems likely that if (R+L=J) that Jon would be both fire and ice. It almost seems too obvious that Jon will eventually become king. In that respect I am a little bit suspicious of it.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

You have to wonder why Bloodraven and Melisandre seem to have such a vested interest in Jon if he's not going to achieve something very big. It also seems likely that if (R+L=J) that Jon would be both fire and ice. It almost seems too obvious that Jon will eventually become king. In that respect I am a little bit suspicious of it.

He can very easily be instrumental and important and the fulfillment of the prophecy (or prophecies) without being the king. People get too caught up on who's going to sit in the stupid iron chair and I don't think it actually really matters. I look at prophecy and acts, not who's going to be called what title by the end.

[Scipio Africanus]

It almost seems too obvious that Jon will eventually become king. In that respect I am a little bit suspicious of it.

The Raven hasn't said king of what Jon will become. It is by no means certain the Raven is talking about that metal piece of furniture.

[Ingelheim]

The song of Ice and Fire belongs to him, but IMO at the end of the series he will be dead.

[littleRickon]

Not sure I see how Arya is one of the main characters. So far her role in the books was to show us what happens to the smallfolk during war and to have a genuinly nice girl to root for as she goes through a lot of trouble. I enjoy her arc (although to me the assassin training is taking up too much time already), and she is IMHO at least as important as Jaimie, Brienne, Davos and the like, but I don't see her up there with Jon, Dany and Tyrion, aka the mother-killers destined to do something great.

Most likeable character? mayhaps

Main hero stuff? not really