Is Jon Snow the true hero of this series?

[Dolorous Nedd]

He can very easily be instrumental and important and the fulfillment of the prophecy (or prophecies) without being the king. People get too caught up on who's going to sit in the stupid iron chair and I don't think it actually really matters. I look at prophecy and acts, not who's going to be called what title by the end.

Very good point! I eagerly await to see how his story line unfolds.

[Dolorous Nedd]

Not sure I see how Arya is one of the main characters. So far her role in the books was to show us what happens to the smallfolk during war and to have a genuinly nice girl to root for as she goes through a lot of trouble. I enjoy her arc (although to me the assassin training is taking up too much time already), and she is IMHO at least as important as Jaimie, Brienne, Davos and the like, but I don't see her up there with Jon, Dany and Tyrion, aka the mother-killers destined to do something great.

Most likeable character? mayhaps

Main hero stuff? not really

It takes "minor" characters to move things along and lay the groundwork for the big players. I do think that Arya will be tasked with something very important before this is over though.

[The Sunset King]

GRRM has tried to emphasis that there is not a singular, unique level of superior hero. It should thus not come as much of a surprise or cause of dismay to consider the greater chance of there being multiple important heroes rather than a single "main" character. The series is too expansive and vast to adhere to such a limiting concept. As of right now, there are several heroes operating simultaneously.

There is also the issue of what perspective one is looking at for pinpointing the supposedly central character:

1. Is it the one who plays the greatest role in whatever constitutes the Song of Ice and Fire? Without having the ending available right now, there is no obvious way to definitively answer this question, so one can only employ speculation and analysis of the existing books.

Bran is a candidate, considering that his work with Bloodraven could end up having the most significant effect on the seasons and global environment. Notably, his wolf is called Summer.

2. Is it the one who "wins" the Game of Thrones? There may well be multiple winners. Some of the existing POVs will surely die as well, a fact which complicates matters. It is in the realm of possibility that both Jon and Daenerys will die for good before the series ends. People seem too often to assume that whichever one of those two they like better must simply be who GRRM is planning to make more pivotal. However, it could easily go either way as to who will have a greater impact in the final book.

3. Is it the Azor Ahai come again/the Prince that was Promised? It is not yet certain that there will be one such person, or that the prophecies will unfold in a way that readers expect. It also is not essential to the story for either AA or PTWP to be the "main hero." Too early to yet conclude that.

Martin probably has refrained from locking himself into having a hero of overwhelmingly superior importance to all other characters. The Song of Ice and Fire, at its highest level, may very well not refer to a single person. From the point of view of the Others, humans completely represent heat and Fire, though the humans think of themselves as reflecting a combination of the two.

Dragons have been hinted to be "fire made flesh," and thus kind of an opposite to the icy Others. Homo Sapiens might be thought of as occupying a central position between the two in terms of Ice/Fire.

Jon is the Aragorn. Bran is the Frodo.

It is known.

Interesting argument; seems like a reasonably probable possibility.

[Lion of Judah]

I view Dany as a hero as well, I get that she is not popular, but I don't care. :P

[Dolorous Nedd]

I view Dany as a hero as well, I get that she is not popular, but I don't care. :P

I like her.

[sifth]

We’ll know once GRRM lets us return to The Wall, in another year or two, lol

[WELSH DR46ON]

First post so be gentle with me ha ha.

Jons obviously got a big part to play, along with danny but i think there is more to come from bran. Why does bloodraven need him? What can bran do that he cant do himself? I might have missed something when i read through (i've only read through once, i'm currently re-reading a clash of kings) so please update me if i have :-)

[Aerys Blackfyre]

no, Sam is!

[Yeade]

Call it wishful thinking, but I happen to believe Jon's doomed to sit the Iron Throne by series end. Whether the Others are a monolithic evil or not--personally, I doubt it and expect a pseudo-environmentalism motivation in the struggle to survive the advent of the age of man and reason--they and their undead minions cannot be allowed to run rampant across the continent, bringing with them a killer winter lasting decades. Even if this war for the dawn's settled in a truce negotiated by Bran, humanity must win at least one major victory upon the battlefield to receive favorable terms, IMO. Given the wreck the War of the Five Kings has made of the realm's armies, which is almost certain to be compounded by another Dance of the Dragons and the fall of the Wall, it seems likely to me that every available faction will need to unite behind a single leader or alliance to stave off the ice zombie apocalypse.

Jon, as the only remaining Stark with any military experience whatsoever, is the clear choice to pull the North together. His experience in the Night's Watch means he knows the threat the Others present and how to fight them, and he's already made headway gaining the loyalty of the North's free agents, the wildlings and Karstarks, in ADWD. Robb's will, assuming it names Jon heir, is the perfect political leverage for Jon to take command of the northmen, too. What's more, thanks to R+L=J, Jon could conceivably co-opt Dany's forces when they inevitably meet. She'll probably have, in addition to whoever follows her from Essos, the southern houses in tow, maybe the spoils of her defeat of Aegriff. Once Jon's ordered all these people in epic battle against the Others, as Stannis argues, he'll have saved the kingdom to be king.

Many here seem to favor Jon either dying in the war for the dawn or staying on the Wall as Lord Commander. I admit I don't quite understand the attraction of such a happy ending for Jon. If nothing else, ASOIAF shows that the power of the crown's no real prize considering the trouble of keeping it, and I imagine the kingship would be infinitely more a burden to Jon as 1) he has absolutely zero interest in it, 2) by accepting, he'll make himself an oathbreaker by any standard, 3) it'd require a self-imposed exile south far from his family and home, and 4) the task of reconstructing a devastated Westeros is bound to suck beyond even the usual backstabbing court politics.

I've always thought there's great irony to be had in bestowing Aragorn's fate upon Jon. Except that, instead of living in wedded bliss with the love of his life while reigning over a kingdom of peace and prosperity, Jon's miserable for the most part. It's basically decades more of his frustrated depression in ADWD, doing his duty because he feels obligated to. Westeros likely benefits--a Stark king will recognize an independent North, a wildling king will rule by consent of the governed, a winter king will advocate economic reforms, a bastard king will value merit regardless of birth--but all at Jon's personal expense.

Jon is my fictional ASOIAF crush, lol, and I'd never miss an opportunity to torture him. I'd actually prefer to see his head roll as an oathbreaker, but only after he's done everything he can for the realm. That's kind of the bane of epic heroes, IMO. They're indispensable in extraordinary times, yet the very qualities that set them apart from the common man and their uncommon experiences make them unfit for ordinary times.

[WakeTheDragon]

He's dead though

[Ingelheim]

The Song of Ice and Fire belongs to Jon and Dany. It is known. But I prefer, by far, Jon.

[The Sunset King]

What's more, thanks to R+L=J, Jon could conceivably co-opt Dany's forces when they inevitably meet. She'll probably have, in addition to whoever follows her from Essos, the southern houses in tow, maybe the spoils of her defeat of Aegriff. Once Jon's ordered all these people in epic battle against the Others, as Stannis argues, he'll have saved the kingdom to be king.

Alternately, the reverse could happen with his relations toward Daenerys. After learning of R + L, he might join his strength to Daenerys, with her acting as the charismatic focal point, and him as the consort or a key political/military leader.

[Yeade]

The Sunset King, one of Aegriff's narrative roles is to make Dany seem unacceptable as queen in the view of the southern nobility, IMO. If Aegriff is the mummer's dragon, as widely speculated, I think the House of the Undying vision, with its "cheering crowd," suggests he'll prove a popular king. GRRM's already confirmed another Dance of the Dragons. I believe this conflict would most likely arise between Dany and Aegriff, especially should the Blackfyre theory also turn out to be true, and it's probably safe to say Dany will emerge the victor.

Consider, however, the way Dany might be perceived if she, the Mad King's daughter, kills her nephew, Rhaegar's son, and usurps the Iron Throne from him. I figure the southern lords, though cowed by her dragons and military strength compared to their weakness after the recent wars, would suspect her of her father's insanity and be seeking an option to curtail her power. This is besides whatever objections the Westerosi may have to Dany being a teenaged barbarian queen who consorts with eastern savages, pirates, and dwarf kinslayers.

As for Jon, the geographical positioning of the Wall, Winterfell, and Greywater Watch relative to one another in a (hypothetical) retreat south from the Others suggests to me that he'll know of R+L=J prior to meeting Dany in the vicinity of the Trident (Harrenhal?). Jon would attempt to negotiate an alliance with Dany regardless of his parentage for the purpose of staving off the ice zombie apocalypse, IMO, and there's no need for him to reveal his Targaryen lineage in the process. Jon has no interest in the Iron Throne and perhaps continues to identify himself as a Stark, son of Lord Eddard. It's not hard for me to imagine there being quite a bit of denial on Jon's part upon learning of R+L=J. He'd have to be forced to present himself as Rhaegar's trueborn son, and I think the political leverage available to him as heir to the Iron Throne before Dany will be sufficient motivation for him to do so. With that power, he could demand that the crown recognize an independent North (plus the Riverlands, Vale, and Iron Islands) and formalize a peace that he can then enforce as king, protecting Winterfell and his younger siblings/cousins as well as pleasing his northern bannermen.

Possibly the key in this dispute between Jon and Dany is Tyrion. He'll likely be Dany's Hand, but he also had a good rapport with Jon in AGOT and a history with Sansa. What's more, depending on how events play out with Lady Stoneheart and in the Vale, Jaime may end up siding with the Starks, bound by his rediscovered honor, if he lives. The importance of their future relationships with Dany and their love for their respective families thus make Jon and/or Tyrion the prime candidates for Dany's treason for love in my eyes.

Lastly, in terms of characterization, I feel Dany's searching for a home, family, and sense of security--represented by her dreams of the house with the red door, where she last had such things as a child--that she ultimately can't find in Westeros. I can think of no better way for GRRM to drive this point into her heart than to write of a populace that won't accept her as queen and not one, but two nephews who aren't truly hers in the end. Personally, I admit I'd like to see Dany die in a manner befitting a Targaryen, all fire and blood, while fighting the Others. There's a certain symmetry, IMO, in Jon and Dany exchanging places as the last Targaryens that puts a fine finishing flourish on their parallel narrative arcs.

This is all wild speculation on my part, of course. So do with it as you please. :blush:

[Dolorous Nedd]

First post so be gentle with me ha ha.

Jons obviously got a big part to play, along with danny but i think there is more to come from bran. Why does bloodraven need him? What can bran do that he cant do himself? I might have missed something when i read through (i've only read through once, i'm currently re-reading a clash of kings) so please update me if i have :-)

I think Bloodraven might need to join forces with Bran. The other option is that Bloodraven knows his days are numbered and he is training Bran to take his place. Together they should be a force to be reckoned with. Especially if they warg the dragons.

[Dolorous Nedd]

He's dead though

More like "dead".

[naik2902]

jon is the song of ice (lyanna) and fire (rhaegar).

[naik2902]

Jon Snow is the realm's hero but not the hero of the story. There is no main hero of ASOIAF. He's the realm's hero because he's the only one that gives a shit about the impending war the Other's. The lords are all busy picking sides and the NW is too busy being pissed about the Wildlings. So yeah, Jon is the hero for the realm because he's the only one worried about the real threat. It's unfortunate that it's possible no one will ever know what's done to help them. I've found it pretty interesting that bastards are so scorned in Westeros yet the only person who gives a shit about the realm is a bastard in the North.

he is the song of ice and fire. ice(lyanna) and fire(rhaegar)

[Nictarion]

The guy who didn't have a POV?

Shouldn't the same be said of Stannis.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Shouldn't the same be said of Stannis.

I'm not claiming that Stannis is "the true hero of this series," am I? I like the guy, yeah, but do I think he's the "true hero"? No I don't and I've never said as much so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Nictarion]

I'm not claiming that Stannis is "the true hero of this series," am I? I like the guy, yeah, but do I think he's the "true hero"? No I don't and I've never said as much so I'm not sure what your point is.

Just aimed at anyone who's big on Stannis. That he's not a pov so he is hard to make a real judgment on when we see everything on him thru other people.