Dany being set up to be the main villain of the story?

[danm_999]

Of course, Stannis Baratheon is the darling of Westeros. By hiring 20 000 "rapists, murderers and plunderers" to Westeros, he's going to save countless lives. Did I miss anything?

I'm curious, when did Stannis give Justin Massey THAT directive?

[Third World King]

YEs, you missed the fact that those "murderers and plunderers" are not Dothraki. Dothraki are brutal to an extent that no mercenary company could ever be. Also note that he is going to hire these from Braavos, a city renowned for its hatred of Slavery so these mercenaries will not be slavers.

And no Stannis is not the darling of Westeros, but yes he's going to save more lives by being in the north than anyone else will by being in the south... or did you forget about the others.

Are ye sure about that? How about Goat/the crippler and the brave companions? How about Bloodbeard and the company of cat? How about Mero and the second sons?

Believe what you will, but the sellswords are as ruthless as the Dothraki in times of war, others even worse...

[ogarrr]

I'm curious, when did Stannis give Justin Massey THAT directive?

I'm not sure? I heard the directive that he was to hire 20,000 men. I read nothing about "rapists, murderers and plunderers".

[Brony Stark]

1. I do not think you fully understand what the prophecy means, a man who is unable to cast any shadow is dead. To cast a shadow, you need to give up your seed and part of your life-force/soul, and since Stannis is described as having no shadow, it could only mean one thing: his soul has been taken by Melisandre.

2. Of course, Stannis Baratheon is the darling of Westeros. By hiring 20 000 "rapists, murderers and plunderers" to Westeros, he's going to save countless lives. Did I miss anything?

1. A 'shadow' could mean other things than Mel's shadowbabies. It could mean influence, it could mean respect, it could mean that he has booted out R'hllor (the darkest shadow's appear in the brightest light, no R'hllor=No shadow) for Seven's sake.

2. A mercenary company isn't going to murpillape through the country side like a bunch of Dothraki. Except for the Brave Company they don't do that kind of stuff, especially if Stannis orders them not to because if Stannis isn't happy he doesn't want them and the IB doesn't pay them and they go poor.

[ogarrr]

Are ye sure about that? How about Goat/the crippler and the brave companions? How about Bloodbeard and the company of cat? How about Mero and the second sons?

Since when are these the men that Stannis asked Massey to hire, bearing in mind that Stannis gelded his own men for raping wildlings, folk that aren't even of the seven kingdoms.

[Third World King]

I'm curious, when did Stannis give Justin Massey THAT directive?

When he told Massey to go find him at least 20 000 sellswords to aid him in the war.

[PatrickStormborn]

Martin has said many times in interviews that he wants to write a story with complex heroes and villains. The Others are clearly the villainous side, and the Starks and Dany (and Tyrion) appear to be the heroes. But hereoes =/= good people, as we have seen throughout the series so far. Arya is becoming a somewhat cold-blooded assassin, Sansa is becoming a master player in the game of thrones who will manipulate innocents, Bran is warging Hodor, Daenerys is sacking cities, and I don't think I even need to mention what Tyrion has done... But that doesn't mean they're not the heroes. Dany won't be loved by the smallfolk of Westeros. She will use fire and blood to force them to submit, and she may be reviled, as Tywin Lannister was reviled by the people of King's Landing... But it's through this forced unification of Westeros that Dany will be able to save it. And that is, I believe, the beauty of ASOIAF.

For the record, I am in no way trying to suggest Tywin was heroic at all. Tywin unleashed Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch, ordered the brutal gang rape of Tysha and forced his son to participate... But his leadership style was pragmatic, and that is what I believe Dany needs if she is to become a heroic figure. The same goes for every other character; even Jon Connington accepts this.

No she is not.

Oh, you bitter summer child. The passage you quoted actually describes Daenerys. I'll walk you through it.

As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.

• Fierce as a storm -- Daenerys Stormborn
  
• Their wives will weep tears of blood -- this represents the wives of the slave masters of Meereen ("women do not forget. Women do not forgive."
  
• The milk men -- the Qartheen
  

[danm_999]

I'm not sure? I heard the directive that he was to hire 20,000 men. I read nothing about "rapists, murderers and plunderers".

He doesn't. It's bullshit.

He tells Massey to get 20,000 sellswords, and the Golden Company, renowned for discipline and professionalism, is his first choice.

Stannis gelds his own men for rape, and executes them for harsher infractions. Why would he hire 20,000 PR nightmares?

[danm_999]

When he told Massey to go find him at least 20 000 sellswords to aid him in the war.

Yeah, and where does the "rapists, murderers and plunderers" part come from?

I find it especially interesting since you've put quotation marks around it, implying it's something Stannis actually said.

[ogarrr]

@danm_999

Just checking, because afaik Stannis' brand of justice is harsh for those who "murpillape". Just making sure I didn't miss something that would be completely out of character for Stannis.

ETA: I think he was quoting me and what I said about the Dothraki.

[Third World King]

1. A 'shadow' could mean other things than Mel's shadowbabies. It could mean influence, it could mean respect, it could mean that he has booted out R'hllor (the darkest shadow's appear in the brightest light, no R'hllor=No shadow) for Seven's sake.

Yes, I understand that. However, I'm sticking with mine, since it makes much sense IMO.

Stannis is the night king V2.0

Has he given his seed to Melisandre? Check

Has he given his life-force/soul to Melisandre? Not all of it, but soon....

2. A mercenary company isn't going to murpillape through the country side like a bunch of Dothraki. Except for the Brave Company they don't do that kind of stuff, especially if Stannis orders them not to because if Stannis isn't happy he doesn't want them and the IB doesn't pay them and they go poor.

The second sons and the stormcrows would disagree with that. Sellswords are nothing more than plunderers, rapists and murderers paid to do a job. Their ranks usually consists of all the scum of the earth.

By the way, sellswords are usually paid before doing a job, and not after.

[danm_999]

Are ye sure about that? How about Goat/the crippler and the brave companions? How about Bloodbeard and the company of cat? How about Mero and the second sons?

Believe what you will, but the sellswords are as ruthless as the Dothraki in times of war, others even worse...

Here's Martin's views:

I presume the mounted mercenaries from the eastern continent aren't as heavily armored as the Westerosi knights? What about their skills and discipline compared to the Westerosi knights?

It varies. Some of the sellsword companies are very disciplined, and some are nothing but rabble joined together in search of loot. At one end there would be the Golden Company, at the other the Brave Companions. The Second Sons and the Stormcrows are in the middle.

So no, not all sellsword companies are freeriding thugs. Now, which end of the spectrum did Stannis tell Massey to hire from?

[Third World King]

Since when are these the men that Stannis asked Massey to hire, bearing in mind that Stannis gelded his own men for raping wildlings, folk that aren't even of the seven kingdoms.

Which companies of sellswords is Massey going to hire? The only sellswords I know of are the ones that plunder, rape and murder people. Are they any other that don't do that?

[shk12344]

Personally I think it's setting up to be an epic final battle between Jon Snow who saved the North from Others invasion and Dany who conquered the Southern Kingdoms and has gone power-mad.

[ogarrr]

Which companies of sellswords is Massey going to hire? The only sellswords I know of are the ones that plunder, rape and murder people. Are they any other that don't do that?

The aforementioned Gold Company. And many that live up to those standards, so spake Martin.

[Third World King]

So no, not all sellsword companies are freeriding thugs. Now, which end of the spectrum did Stannis tell Massey to hire from?

The Golden Company is already employed. Who is Massey going to hire?

The Second sons rape, murder and pillage

The Stormcrows rape, pillage and murder

The company of the cat rape, pillage and murder

The Windblown rape, pillage and murder

etc.

[Brony Stark]

Which companies of sellswords is Massey going to hire? The only sellswords I know of are the ones that plunder, rape and murder people. Are they any other that don't do that?

The only ones that we know how they work. Let us not forget the other companies mentioned in the series that could be almost as good as the GC.

Bright Banners

Gallant Men

Iron Shields

Maidens Men

Ragged Standard

Take your pick.

And let us not forget single sellswords like Bronn, and the Essos powers. You could probably hire Myrish Crossbowmen and the like.

[ogarrr]

The Golden Company is already employed. Who is Massey going to hire?

Some of the many other mercenary companies, as Martin says they range from the Golden Company to the brave companions. And if they do rape then Stannis will geld them.

Also where in the text did it state that the Stormcros or the second sons raped? And if they did, then that's a fault on Dany's behalf for hiring them.

[Brony Stark]

The Golden Company is already employed. Who is Massey going to hire?

The Second sons rape, murder and pillage

The Stormcrows rape, pillage and murder

The company of the cat rape, pillage and murder

The Windblown rape, pillage and murder

etc.

And how, exactly is he going to get to SLAVERS BAY? He isn't going to go to the Second Sons, Stormcrows, Company of the Cat or Windblown.

[Third World King]

Personally I think it's setting up to be an epic final battle between Jon Snow who saved the North from Others invasion and Dany who conquered the Southern Kingdoms and has gone power-mad.

Daenerys will fight the Others at the trident. It is known.