Dany being set up to be the main villain of the story?

[The Sunset King]

Perhaps Daenerys will end up being somewhat like ASOIAF's version of the Atreides, particularly Muad'dib. Technically more protagonist than antagonist but a legendary conqueror whose historical impact and nature is viewed through numerous different interpretations of varying hews. Some favorable, others negative.

[protar]

I also think it interesting that in GOT Jorah makes Dany realise just how deluded Viserys is, but then Dany picks up these delusions herself. She realises that there weren't really any of the Usurper's hired knives, but then refers to them in her inner monologue as being real. She realises that the commoners aren't really waiting for VIserys and that his conquest of Westeros would kill countless innocents but then seems to think that the commoners are waiting for her and doesn't give a fig that thousands will die because of her invasion.

[Sword of the Summer Isles]

I don't think that she's going to go completely insane, she might have something that grounds her.

[Tharvot]

Dany has been portrayed as a good person this entire series so far. She continually has been at the mercy of people who are seeking to use her for their own power claims. I suppose it is possible that Dany ultimately gets fed up with all the betrayal and bathes Westeros in fire, but I just don't see it.

Up until her dragons became large (really, up until she rode off on Drogon), she had been a pawn. For all her conquering, she has had little real power of her own. Now that she had Drogon seemingly at her side, she has real power. I think she will be able to unite armies to fight for her, rather than for the promise of her gold. Dragons are apparently pretty convincing.

As others have mentioned, though Dany has been well-intentioned, her plans often leave people and places worse off than before she arrived. In the end, she may die fighting for her kingdom and save her kingdom but be remembered as a villain rather than a savior.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And Dany made large progress in her heelturn through the books while we only saw her through her own POV. Barristan and Quentyn aren't the best judges of character and heavily emotionally involved with her. Having Drogo murpillage for her, poor MMD and all that shit, shitting on treaty and trust in Astapor, bribing the Stormcrows and Second Sons, butchering the Wise Master out of revenge instead of justice, Hazzea, the winesellers daughters, abandoning Astapor, abandoning the refugees, shirking her duties, attacking envoys, well, she as a very large set of sins to atone for should she choose to. If she choose to.

She is probably not the main villain, but one of several major villains.

[Three_eyed_Bro]

Btw, someone said Tyrion is double kinslaying? When did that happen? Tywin yes, but number 2.0?

I believe his mother died giving him in childbirth and he is consistantly blamed for her death. he seems to harbor some responsibility for this either tongue-in-cheek or completely

[dreamcatcher]

I think she already is, since like the whole forum here hates her.

[Silent_Hero]

I think Dany will follow the path of Aegon V and Rhaegar. They were really caught up in the prophecies and it led them to their deaths and hurt the realm even more. Dany is so caught up in these prophecies she won't see the bigger picture. Dany will become as paranoid as Aerys the Mad King, as mean as Viserys, as distant as Rhaegar and as foolish as Aegon the V.

[Rains]

I can easily see Dany going crazy. She's becoming progressively more ruthless as the story goes on. As for the Targaryen madness, it seems to me that it takes something to set it off for the most part. For Aerys this was the defiance of Duskendale which just happened to take place later in his life. Dany is currently in the midst of a gruelling conquest, she's obsessed with being betrayed and getting more paranoid by the day and will likely be facing the Others before the story is done. It just makes no sense to have the Targaryen madness and not have a major Targ character afflicted by it, and I can't see Jon going mad.

Rutheless? In what sense? She has had many oppurtunities to be Tywin/Areys, but she hasn't. The very fact that she had the power to rule Essos in a fortnight locked up in Mereen states that she isn't near what the Mad King was.

She's stern, yes, but fuck, if you call that stern then Stannis is a demon and Ned Stark too. She's as stern as a telitubby when in comparison to other rulers.

[Rains]

Viserys wasn't a major character.

Except Aegon V and Baelor were mad too. Aegon V become obsessed with TPWWP prophecy and Baelor is a Religion Fanatic who imprisoned his sisters.

Mad, but hardly 'villain' material. The way some people predict things you think she'll be mojojojo or something.

[Rains]

BB...ok my mistake. Dany is heading to the infamous Targ madness. Her actions in Astapor, the Meereenese, the Great Masters, Hazzea and Quentyn... and the most unbearable of them all the "Fire and blood" part when she desided against herself/rich lady...

Astapor? Meereen? What kind of "mad" are you referring too? IIRC she wasn't "mad" then, and she isn't "mad" now. The Great Masters was a good example though, I'll give you that. Not that they didn't deserve it; she did do it out of revenge, not out of pleasure.

[Winterfellian]

Rutheless? In what sense? She has had many oppurtunities to be Tywin/Areys, but she hasn't. The very fact that she had the power to rule Essos in a fortnight locked up in Mereen states that she isn't near what the Mad King was.

She's stern, yes, but fuck, if you call that stern then Stannis is a demon and Ned Stark too. She's as stern as a telitubby when in comparison to other rulers.

Dany definitely has her ruthless moments. Is not the issue of the 163 (unidentified) slavers. In Mereen she allowed the use of torture for questioning even though he acknowledges herself that is probably pointless due to the fact that they were getting too many confessions and were not closer to catching the sons of the Harpy (people will confess almost anything under severe torture). The reason I find this example interesting is because she's not on the way to conquer Mereen here so there is no excuse of this being an act of war. She already is governing and this is the brand of justice she's imparting and call it the Dragon's mercy. Sure, she's had opportunities to be even more ruthless but just because she didn't succumb to this other temptations doesn't mean she's instantaneously good.

Part of the problem with Dany's perception is that we have only her own POV to judge her and so we know of her good intentions. (I don't consider Barristan and Quentyn unbiased pov and for the most part I think neither of them understands her). So while Dany may not be a bad person her actions does seem to carry out villainous consequences. Is she inherently evil? I don't think so. But this doesn't negate the fact that her actions may cause her to be viewed as evil not to mention her last chapter in ADWD where she seems ready to embrace her family's motto-Fire and Blood.

[Mance Mance Fancy Pants]

A totally Martinesque thing to do, is if she conquers Westeros and marries Jon (which I doubt will happen, but a lot of people seem to believe it will) then maybe he'd be forced to kill her after she starts doing her whole "I'll take what's mine with fire and blood" stchik...

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

if Aegon really is a Targaryen and not a Blackfyre, then Dany will freak out because she isn't the true heir. she uses her dragons for destruction and it is up to Aegon to unite westeros against his insane Aunt.

[Tini]

I think she already is, since like the whole forum here hates her.

I don't hate her, and I am sure I am not the only one on these forums. It is a waste of time arguing against her haters, though.

[lojzelote]

No, she's too stupid to make a decent villian.

That's Cersei.

[Rains]

Dany definitely has her ruthless moments. Is not the issue of the 163 (unidentified) slavers. In Mereen she allowed the use of torture for questioning even though he acknowledges herself that is probably pointless due to the fact that they were getting too many confessions and were not closer to catching the sons of the Harpy (people will confess almost anything under severe torture). The reason I find this example interesting is because she's not on the way to conquer Mereen here so there is no excuse of this being an act of war. She already is governing and this is the brand of justice she's imparting and call it the Dragon's mercy. Sure, she's had opportunities to be even more ruthless but just because she didn't succumb to this other temptations doesn't mean she's instantaneously good.

Part of the problem with Dany's perception is that we have only her own POV to judge her and so we know of her good intentions. (I don't consider Barristan and Quentyn unbiased pov and for the most part I think neither of them understands her). So while Dany may not be a bad person her actions does seem to carry out villainous consequences. Is she inherently evil? I don't think so. But this doesn't negate the fact that her actions may cause her to be viewed as evil not to mention her last chapter in ADWD where she seems ready to embrace her family's motto-Fire and Blood.

I would call that a result of desperation. Ruthlessness (to me) is an act of cruelty based on unecessary means. If she tortured people to find her lost cat, then that's useless. But she is torturing people under the great stress of ruling with more and more deaths coming to her people. It's more of a "last resort" kind of thing. I don't see her taking any joy from the notion at all.

I dislike black and white characters, so I don't see her as good personified too. In fact, I think she should be a little more like Tywin in a lot of cases. Poisoning the wells, telling these slaves to fuck off, taking her plunder and men and leaving to invade Westeros. That was the plan anyway; that's what poeple want her to do it seems.

Invading Westeros isn't going to be a matter of swooping down with her Dragons and saving the day. It will mean fire and blood (no pun intended.) It's war, and she will be subject to the cruelties of war and will have to issue her own kind of cruelty in order to win. If she ends up compassionate and merciful she will loose. She is there to conquer, not to sway their hearts with her beauty and mercy.

So if anything, she will be a queen. Not a villain. A villain is somebody who does things for the sole purpose of destruction; to do evil and thrive through that evil. If Martin turns Dany to a moustache twirling villain who laughs as she burns countless men to ashes then I will not be a happy chappy. I'm a huge Stannis/Jon fan, I like Dany, but I'm not one of these "KHALEESI" people. But I enjoy Martin's writing, and so far he has avoided that nonsense (what BioWare did to the Illusive Man) and has kept people in shades of grey.

[Rains]

if Aegon really is a Targaryen and not a Blackfyre, then Dany will freak out because she isn't the true heir. she uses her dragons for destruction and it is up to Aegon to unite westeros against his insane Aunt.

Of course she's going to freak out. Which conqueror wouldn't. But that's not the plan, even Dany can see an alliance via marriage will do better.

[protar]

I would call that a result of desperation. Ruthlessness (to me) is an act of cruelty based on unecessary means. If she tortured people to find her lost cat, then that's useless. But she is torturing people under the great stress of ruling with more and more deaths coming to her people. It's more of a "last resort" kind of thing. I don't see her taking any joy from the notion at all.

I dislike black and white characters, so I don't see her as good personified too. In fact, I think she should be a little more like Tywin in a lot of cases. Poisoning the wells, telling these slaves to fuck off, taking her plunder and men and leaving to invade Westeros. That was the plan anyway; that's what poeple want her to do it seems.

Invading Westeros isn't going to be a matter of swooping down with her Dragons and saving the day. It will mean fire and blood (no pun intended.) It's war, and she will be subject to the cruelties of war and will have to issue her own kind of cruelty in order to win. If she ends up compassionate and merciful she will loose. She is there to conquer, not to sway their hearts with her beauty and mercy.

So if anything, she will be a queen. Not a villain. A villain is somebody who does things for the sole purpose of destruction; to do evil and thrive through that evil. If Martin turns Dany to a moustache twirling villain who laughs as she burns countless men to ashes then I will not be a happy chappy. I'm a huge Stannis/Jon fan, I like Dany, but I'm not one of these "KHALEESI" people. But I enjoy Martin's writing, and so far he has avoided that nonsense (what BioWare did to the Illusive Man) and has kept people in shades of grey.

You seem to have a very narrow definition of villain. I don't think anyone wants Dany to become a mustache twirling villainess but that doesn't mean she can't become an antagonist by the end. Although I do think she'll end up laughing as she burns countless men to ashes. It's been prophesised afterall.

[Rains]

You seem to have a very narrow definition of villain. I don't think anyone wants Dany to become a mustache twirling villainess but that doesn't mean she can't become an antagonist by the end. Although I do think she'll end up laughing as she burns countless men to ashes. It's been prophesised afterall.

An antagonist to whom, exactly? To all the Stannis fans, she will be hell on earth. To all the Dany fans, she'll be the messiah of westeros. It's a matter of prespective.