Fat Mac Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 According to Qhorin Halfhand, "only fools like Thoren Smallwood despise the wildlings." So I'd assume his hatred was far beyond just mere distaste for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 According to Qhorin Halfhand, "only fools like Thoren Smallwood despise the wildlings." So I'd assume his hatred was far beyond just mere distaste for them.thats secondhand, and from a guy from the Shadow Tower. I want firsthand examples of Qhorin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfellian Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Love the thread BP! Reading your post I am actually mad at Jon for not realizing how easy it was pushed them off the wall on the meeting following his own with Tormund. It was the perfect scenario for an accident :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg of Dragons Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 this originally gave me about 30 ulcers12 from the truth and re-reading18 from laughing my arse off!!i will add:Wun "wrong place wrong time" Wunhaha pig army!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg of Dragons Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 and just cuz im weak i woulda went for mellove them redheadsapparently jon does toomight b wrong but doesent jon mistake mel 4 ygritte at sum point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg of Dragons Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Doing good things inadvertently only goes so far in my opinion. She is obviously up to something only she knows about, and she's so misguided in her operations, I don't find her to be an asset."They say the path to heaven is paved with good intentions" jesus (i think)hooohaaamy fault dont no how to highlight certain sentences within a postdidnt mean to slaughter what u said or take it out of context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonguard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think GRRM is setting things up for Robin Ryger and Desmond Grell to play an important role at the Wall in TWOW. Maybe.Ryger, Grell(maybe?), Thorne, Buckwell etc - Riverlands and Crownland houses loyal to the Targaryens during the war of the usurper (the riverlands later loyal to Robb Stark)... why could these men be important at the wall at this time...? (might be wrong about their importance but R+L=J anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonguard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The Watch lost too many good men: Thoren Smallwood, Jarman Buckwell, Benjen Stark, Qhorin Half-Hand and it seems the "followers" are left leading the Wall through the greatest threat it faced since the Age of Heroes. All those guys that you listed are either newcomers or stewards/builders who have gone once or twice beyond the Wall.Smallwood and Halfhand are dead yes and Benjen Stark is MIA but i'm pretty sure that Jarman Buckwell survived and returned to the wall, didnt he report that jon was with the wildlings, Qhorins death and that Mance's forces were heading towards the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnSnow Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 people like to hate on Lyle Crakehall? What? Strongboar is a solid guy.Anyway, the OP is spot on. The Old Bear put it best when he described most of the men of the Night's Watch as useless. Of the men the NW has at the start of the series, the only worthwhile seem to be the Old Bear, Ben Stark, Qhorin, Jeremy Rykker, Dolorous Edd, Thoren Smallwood, Jarmun Buckwell, and Denys Mallister. The other men are either total idiots or illiterate. The other leaders under Jon seem to be the last few educated men there. They all happen to be idiots.You forgot Donal 'the brave' Noye as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblair Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 This made me wonder. Why the hell IS Cotter Pyke at the Wall? The Ironborn are barely part of Westerosi culture, let alone beholden to the Night Watch...an organization all but ignored by most of the Seven Kingdoms. And they are on the opposite side of the continent from the Wall, with seemingly zero interest in (or fear of) Wildlings and Others. In fact, a weak Wall helps them since it can drain Northern forces from patrolling the western coast.And beyond that, since when did the Ironborn get squishy enough to send people in exile? Sure seems like killing is their standard way of settling disputes.So perhaps he was sent by one of the Seven Kingdoms...but again, if he was caught reaving I doubt he'd be given the Wall option. And if he committed a more mundane crime, it seems like just being a criminal member of a semi-outlawed culture would be enough to warrant execution.Only thing I can think of is Ned and Robert granted some mass-clemency to surrendered scrubs after the Rebellion...but surely Cotter's been there much longer than that. Maybe his backstory is in the books and I missed it or forgot. If so I just wasted all of our time lol, and I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblair Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 On a related note, completely agree with your OP. Jon was surrounded by people who struck me as being either thick, idiotic, spiteful, vengeful, close-minded, or untrustworthy. Or a combination of those. He reminded me of the manager who has the revelation that he's the smartest person in the room, which is a horrible place to be. I'd much rather surround myself with people who are smarter, it raises the bar of an institution. Unfortunately for Jon, the NW serves for life.It's so weird, it's like he's in a den of criminals or something.:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 bleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButcherCrow Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 This made me wonder. Why the hell IS Cotter Pyke at the Wall? Just a thought but he could be a bastard fathered by an ironborn who'd gone reaving & was subsequently born somewhere in the north? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Just a thought but he could be a bastard fathered by an ironborn who'd gone reaving & was subsequently born somewhere in the north?Well, to have the surname "Pyke", he had to be born on one of the Iron Islands. I don't think that he's lived his life as a Northman either, since he's often referred to as a skilled ship navigator, so he probably had to be part of quite a few raids, at least, before joining the Night's Watch. My guess would be that on one such raid, he was captured somehow and condemned to either death or life serving the Night's Watch.Oooh, I just checked the Wiki. In Cotter Pyke's entry, it says "Cotter Pyke is a member of the Night's Watch, born on the Iron Islands. He commands Eastwatch-by-the-sea. He is the bastard son of a tavern wench." So it tells us absolutely nothing about how he joined the Watch, but now we do have some basic background information, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Most of those chapters had me laughing. If I had to pick a favorite jackass it would have to be Janos "I have POOOOOOOOOOWERFUL FRIENDS!' Slynt.Lets be honest for a moment - if you really had powerful friends, how the hell did you end up on the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 You put so much work into this that I find it almost impossible to find any fault with your thinking whatsoever. Great Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longspear Ryk Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Honestly i see thorne becoming a good guy...hes loyal to his brothers and the nights watch. He takes his job a little to seriously maybe, but pitting the brothers agains him, makes them come together as a team.... Hes got a chip on his shoulder but thats what he gets for staying loyal to the true targ dynasty...Janos slynt is self explanatory...Melisandre is trying really hard, but way to hard that she just makes shit up...but i find jon stupid for not allying with her while hes surrounded by mutinous morons. Plus she be able to help him with the queen and queens men..Selyse is just a horrible women... Not only is he hideous but shes a stupid bitch... Looking like that she ought to be the sweetest woman in the world..The queens knights are just hilarious... They remind me of those american marines that threw that puppy of the cliff. Damn rednecks...Bowen/othell/septon... The septon seems to drunk to really care at all about anything. Id be surprised if he even was involved with the assassination. Bowen and yarwcyk are goddamn stubborn old men. Bowen woulda probably been more understanding before the Weeper introduced himself but still their basically racists...It does suck to be Jon, but he did go out the same way as his role model.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 'Jon vs the Southron douchebags' are some of my favorite chapters in the books thus far - Through Jons point of view we get to see how his time with the Nights Watch has changed him. He sees the political workings, the willful ignorance, the arrogance of a lot of the nobility for what it is. He's very much become 'brothers' with the men around him, who are mainly comprised of the smallfolk - so we are starting to see how they act them through their eyes.I think it's quite well done and gives you a 'ground view' of the whole carryings on, and given this view now - can he ever step back amoungst them, even as 'a lord proper'?. To be honest I don't think he wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 'Jon vs the Southron douchebags' are some of my favorite chapters in the books thus far - Through Jons point of view we get to see how his time with the Nights Watch has changed him. He sees the political workings, the willful ignorance, the arrogance of a lot of the nobility for what it is. He's very much become 'brothers' with the men around him, who are mainly comprised of the smallfolk - so we are starting to see how they act them through their eyes.I think it's quite well done and gives you a 'ground view' of the whole carryings on, and given this view now - can he ever step back amoungst them, even as 'a lord proper'?. To be honest I don't think he wants to.Eddard was maintaining a certain distance between himself and the commonfolk, but otherwise he still treated them with respect and as human beings. Jon had to deal with more backstabbing and had to debate much more if he wanted his decisions to be properly carried through, but other than that bunch of bad [horribly rotten] apples, he was pretty much treating them the same way. If, by some twists of fate, Jon becomes Lord of Winterfell, then I should expect him to act very much like Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blede Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ser Patrek "I can't believe someone is this much of a jerk" of King's Mountain: This "Southron Fool" extraordinaire could not be more hamfisted or rude. Upon introducing himself to Jon, he asked: "Should the Others turn up, do you plan to offer them hospitality as well?" Seriously? Talk about someone too big for their britches. He also prances around Castle Black looking to get into pointless fights with the other men, and blows a gasket when Alys chooses someone else to marry. He also makes a complete fool of himself to Val: "Up up with you know, ser kneeler." I suppose the bright side of this is that he was hoisted by his own petard in the end, earning himself quite the Darwin award.But... he was trying to prove himself worthy in Val's eyes ! You don't understand true love...Slynt's belief that Mance would sue for peace because he heard that Janos Slynt has come trumps everything else. He IS the embodiement of jackanapeness at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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