Who will come to Sansa's rescue

[FanTasy]

I am inclined to think that Rhaegar was not a rapist.

Robert thinks differently, but there is little evidence to confirm this.

Ned for instance does not express anger or reflects on it.

There is another bit that could show that Robert was not right.

It is in AGOT, when Dany and Jorah enter the scene of slaughter after the raid at the village of the Lhazareen.

Dany claims Eroeh and other women, including Mirri Maz Dur as her slaves when she sees they are being raped, and she uses her position to give orders that there will be no raping.

Jorah tells Dany that she surely is her brothers sister, meaning Rhaegar, not Viserys.

This could be reference to that Rhaegar did not condone rape.

Which of course raises the question how Ser Jorah would know this ...

ETA I'm sorry, this reply was way off topic :blushing:

[gingerpunk]

I am inclined to think that Rhaegar was not a rapist.

Robert thinks differently, but there is little evidence to confirm this.

Ned for instance does not express anger or reflects on it.

There is another bit that could show that Robert was not right.

It is in AGOT, when Dany and Jorah enter the scene of slaughter after the raid at the village of the Lhazareen.

Dany claims Eroeh and other women, including Mirri Maz Dur as her slaves when she sees they are being raped, and she uses her position to give orders that there will be no raping.

Jorah tells Dany that she surely is her brothers sister, meaning Rhaegar, not Viserys.

This could be reference to that Rhaegar did not condone rape.

Which of course raises the question how Ser Jorah would know this ...

Yes, that was the first point at which I started to suspect that there was more to Rhaegar than what Robert said. I completely forgot about that. Also it's possible that even Robert knew Lyanna was not raped and he just uses this version of events to soothe his bruised ego. Ned, I feel, definitely knew Rhaegar didn't rape Lyanna but he is either protecting his friend by not arguing the point or he's protecting his sister's honor by letting everyone think she was unwilling. Ned was a pretty good guy but I think he's more comfortable in black and white than shades of gray. To him, it would seem that his sister dishonored herself and her family by running off with someone other than the man she was supposed to marry. And while raising Jon Snow as his own (provided of course that R+L=J) would be the only way he could protect the child from Robert, it also protects Lyanna's honor, albeit by sullying his own.

Once again, I call into question how a man like Ned could show such loyalty and love to a man like Robert, when he knows that Robert would've slaughtered Lyanna's infant son if he'd known the truth about him. It seems to me that although Ned has killed, he disliked killing but was honor-bound and duty-bound to do it. He had a reverence for life, and particularly the life of children, and the deaths of Rhaegar's and Elia's children at the command of Robert always haunted him.

[Chalais]

I'm pretty sure that Sansa will go along with Littlefinger's plans, even if SweetRobin dies since she doesn't see a way out even if part of her is telling her that what is going on around her is wrong.

She'll woo Harry the Heir, but then in time honored tradition as she travels to the wedding, she'll be abducted by the Mountain Men and after some confusion will be recognized by one of the Chiefs and the twisted story will come to the surface.

Sansa will find her status as Tyrion's wife helpful (ironically) since it gives her an 'in' with them and use them as a private army of sorts, and kill Littlefinger.

Not sure what would happen after that though...

[cforrester]

I doubt that very much. Sansa may be LF's protege but she i don't think she will condone the murder of what she thinks is her last living relative. I can see her being discovered and being marched to KL when she is liberated by Blackfish, Jaime, Gendry and Brienne. The marriage to Tyrion is annulled because this High Septon is a fanatic and if he knows that it was forced by Cersei and wasn't consumated then he will most likely declare it anulled.

[gingerpunk]

I'm pretty sure that Sansa will go along with Littlefinger's plans, even if SweetRobin dies since she doesn't see a way out even if part of her is telling her that what is going on around her is wrong.

She'll woo Harry the Heir, but then in time honored tradition as she travels to the wedding, she'll be abducted by the Mountain Men and after some confusion will be recognized by one of the Chiefs and the twisted story will come to the surface.

Sansa will find her status as Tyrion's wife helpful (ironically) since it gives her an 'in' with them and use them as a private army of sorts, and kill Littlefinger.

Not sure what would happen after that though...

I like this theory because it brings her marriage to Tyrion back into the picture which has been all but forgotten since she left KL. Also, I forgot about the Mountain Tribes and, more specifically, how Tyrion first came to know them. Good call.

[gingerpunk]

I also don't think she would sit idly by while Littlefinger murders SweetRobin. Of course, the boy is known to be unwell, so he may just not tell her and Sansa may think that little Robert just succumbed to his illness, but I think if she was made aware of a plan to kill him, she'd take issue with it.

But I think what's really at stake here is Sansa's innocence and we saw her worldview shattered the moment Joffrey ordered her father's execution. From that point on, Sansa has largely been a prisoner. Even with Petyr, she's a prisoner of sorts, although DwD kind of shows her coming into her own. The only thing with Littlefinger is, although he does treat her as a protege of sorts, it's kind of clear that he wants Sansa for himself. Really he's shown that he's not a person to be trusted and since we don't get a POV from him, we really don't know if the plans he told Sansa are all he's got up his sleeve.

[Tini]

I doubt that very much. Sansa may be LF's protege but she i don't think she will condone the murder of what she thinks is her last living relative. I can see her being discovered and being marched to KL when she is liberated by Blackfish, Jaime, Gendry and Brienne. The marriage to Tyrion is annulled because this High Septon is a fanatic and if he knows that it was forced by Cersei and wasn't consumated then he will most likely declare it anulled.

No, she might not condone open murder, but I think she has come to a point where she accepts that SweetRobin is dying of his illness, it is only a question when - and if the circumstances are favourable to their plans.

I think Littlefinger is too smart to murder SweetRobin. If he wants to get rid of SweetRobin, he can encourage SweetRobin to live like a normal boy of noble origin - to go out riding/hunting with Vale lords, for example. Accidents are guaranteed to happen. SweetRobin might not die of falling off a horse in one of his fits, but it would alert the lords to SweetRobin's frailty.

SweetRobin's health problems would cause trouble for Littlefinger now because once the lords realize the boy's condition, they will realize that he'll never be a strong leader for the Vale. They will start looking for alternatives - in other words, Harry the Heir. Sansa must win Harry before this happens, to bind him to Littlefinger and herself. Then it doesn't matter if the Vale lords follow SweetRobin or Harry, they'll follow Littlefinger in any case.

Sansa's marriage was not forced by Cersei, it was forced by Tywin. People might even consider it a normal political marriage. While the High Septon is a fanatic, he does not know for a fact that the marriage was forced, and neither does he know that it wasn't consummated. He does know that Sansa and her husband Tyrion stand accused of murdering King Joffrey. He is supporting King Tommen, Joffrey's brother. He is more likely to put Sansa on trial for murder than to annul her marriage.

I think Littlefinger plans to ignore Sansa's marriage to Tyrion - after all, Tyrion might be dead already. If necessary, he'll call on the Septon officiating at Sansa's wedding to Harry to annul her prior marriage. I'm not sure he'd consider bigamy a problem. (He could always use that to blackmail Harry the Heir, I suppose.) But Sansa would object, and that would jeopardize his plans.

So he tells her they'll get her marriage annulled, and Sansa (who has no idea what is involved in getting a marriage annulled) believes him.

[FanTasy]

For most characters of ASOIAF it is hard to envision what their arc will be, because GRRM has shown to have some surprises in store for his readers.

He likes the 'twists'.

Sansa has shown she is not only the 'damsel in distress' and has shown remarkable skills in being a survivor by using the 'weapons' that she has.

It may well be she will not need anyone to come to her rescue.

It is speculation, nothing solid in the text, but I think Sansa's arc and Arya's arc will be connected and turn out to be one of those parallels GRRM likes.

This does not necessarily mean Sansa and Arya will ever meet again, and this may or may not be important to their respective arcs.

We see Arya as someone who has hardened her body as well as her heart, and she is closing her heart.

Sansa in her own way is walking this path too, but her humanity and capability of feeling pity for others are still defining her. She has not yet closed her heart.

And I think exactly this capacity of Sansa is that may have been the trigger that saved her and could save her again.

It was something that Sandor saw, he saw her innocence and this made him want to protect her, as Tyrion did. Of course they are both men and because they are living humans they are sexual beings, so both did not see only innocence but also a beautiful attractive young girl. But they both in their own way chose to honor her innocence.

I don't think Sandor will be a part of Sansa's arc again, I have a feeling she will meet Tyrion again though. But their relation has changed and it may well be Tyrion by then is not attracted to her anymore.

Someone else, maybe someone who we have not yet met, could have the same urge to protect Sansa, if she ever needs to be protected.

What would be a twist though and maybe something that would fit with GRRM's writing is that Arya after becoming a cold-blooded killer has some redemption arc and turns to the good and that Sansa may lose her goodness and turn into someone who is not like the Sansa we have seen.

Dunno :dunce: , until we have the sixth book or something GRRM tells us in an interview ... anything is possible, methinks.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

No, she might not condone open murder, but I think she has come to a point where she accepts that SweetRobin is dying of his illness, it is only a question when - and if the circumstances are favourable to their plans.

I think Littlefinger is too smart to murder SweetRobin. If he wants to get rid of SweetRobin, he can encourage SweetRobin to live like a normal boy of noble origin - to go out riding/hunting with Vale lords, for example. Accidents are guaranteed to happen. SweetRobin might not die of falling off a horse in one of his fits, but it would alert the lords to SweetRobin's frailty.

SweetRobin's health problems would cause trouble for Littlefinger now because once the lords realize the boy's condition, they will realize that he'll never be a strong leader for the Vale. They will start looking for alternatives - in other words, Harry the Heir. Sansa must win Harry before this happens, to bind him to Littlefinger and herself. Then it doesn't matter if the Vale lords follow SweetRobin or Harry, they'll follow Littlefinger in any case.

Sansa's marriage was not forced by Cersei, it was forced by Tywin. People might even consider it a normal political marriage. While the High Septon is a fanatic, he does not know for a fact that the marriage was forced, and neither does he know that it wasn't consummated. He does know that Sansa and her husband Tyrion stand accused of murdering King Joffrey. He is supporting King Tommen, Joffrey's brother. He is more likely to put Sansa on trial for murder than to annul her marriage.

I think Littlefinger plans to ignore Sansa's marriage to Tyrion - after all, Tyrion might be dead already. If necessary, he'll call on the Septon officiating at Sansa's wedding to Harry to annul her prior marriage. I'm not sure he'd consider bigamy a problem. (He could always use that to blackmail Harry the Heir, I suppose.) But Sansa would object, and that would jeopardize his plans.

So he tells her they'll get her marriage annulled, and Sansa (who has no idea what is involved in getting a marriage annulled) believes him.

Where on earth did you get the idea that Sansa is OKAY with sweetrobins death. How is this plausible when in sansa's last chapter we didn't got into her thoughts. After Sansa figuring out LF scheming and plans the chapter stops. So Sansa being okay with sweetrobins death is plain ridiculious. The way the last chapter ended gives Grrm the wide possibilities and roads with Sansa story. Maybe Sansa will decide to escape the vale with sweetrobin. Perhaps Sansa will poison LF before he kills sweetrobin. Anything could happen.

Plus I will say it again Sansa represents the deconstruction of the classic princess/damsel in distress trope. Since Grrm is a major troll and likes to pull a twist to the typical fantasy archertype I fully expect that Sansa will save herself, sweetrobin and the vale from pedobear by taking him down. Brienne, jaime ore lady stoneheart could do the killing. That would be fitting.

[Where Boars Glow]

Where on earth did you get the idea that Sansa is OKAY with sweetrobins death. How is this plausible when in sansa's last chapter we didn't got into her thoughts. After Sansa figuring out LF scheming and plans the chapter stops. So Sansa being okay with sweetrobins death is plain ridiculious. The way the last chapter ended gives Grrm the wide possibilities and roads with Sansa story. Maybe Sansa will decide to escape the vale with sweetrobin. Perhaps Sansa will poison LF before he kills sweetrobin. Anything could happen.

Plus I will say it again Sansa represents the deconstruction of the classic princess/damsel in distress trope. Since Grrm is a major troll and likes to pull a twist to the typical fantasy archertype I fully expect that Sansa will save herself, sweetrobin and the vale from pedobear by taking him down. Brienne, jaime ore lady stoneheart could do the killing. That would be fitting.

For the record.....I am ok with Sweet Robins death.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

For the record.....I am ok with Sweet Robins death.

If you are okay with the murder of an, albeit annoying one, eight year old boy that is your own choice. But frankly I don't think Sansa will be okay with it, and we are talking about Sansa and what she will do.

[Where Boars Glow]

If you are okay with the murder of an, albeit annoying one, eight year old boy that is your own choice. But frankly I don't think Sansa will be okay with it, and we are talking about Sansa and what she will do.

I know Sansa wouldnt be ok with it.

Also i do not condone the murder of any actual children.....just the murder of annoying characters. :)

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I know Sansa wouldnt be ok with it.

Also i do not condone the murder of any actual children.....just the murder of annoying characters. :)

So you're okay with amoral, cruel, sick, psychopathic characters who basically could be serial killers if they lived in our time. But the poor kid who was unfortunate to have such parents should die? Well saying that this is a weird comment would be the understatement of the year.

[qixoticneurotic]

So you're okay with amoral, cruel, sick, psychopathic characters who basically could be serial killers if they lived in our time. But the poor kid who was unfortunate to have such parents should die? Well saying that this is a weird comment would be the understatement of the year.

pro life meet pro choice. its the internet man opinions vary.

the kids a walking talking allegory on the question of viability and like in modern times it will be a burgeoning question in the development of her character as she comes of age and into her sexuality and contrasted against the expectations of those in her role and of her station both the readers and in westeros.

its actually a bit hamm handed to be honest with you. cat learns of lysas visit to the midwife after lysa and petyrs encounter at the same time sansa was getting her period in kings landing and after cats death the fact that sansa wont have her mother around to talk about these sort of things. instead she has cersei.

i think this may be one of the things that may be changed due to their no longer being a 5 year gap as early childhood epilepsy can completely disapear with the onset of puberty. sweetrobin would have just gotten better. with no gap the question lingers and its meant to .

i also see sansa's relationship with young jon aryn paralelling tyrions sympathy for "cripples bastards and broken things" opening her eyes to the realities of tyrions experience watching sweetrobin struggle with his own challenges.

[Tini]

If you are okay with the murder of an, albeit annoying one, eight year old boy that is your own choice. But frankly I don't think Sansa will be okay with it, and we are talking about Sansa and what she will do.

No, she wouldn't be alright with murder. But why are you so certain she'll find out? She knows how frail SweetRobin's health is. She might believe he died of natural causes or had an accident, and not even suspect foul play.

I don't think she would murder SweetRobin - but I think her quite capable of causing his death, just the same. We know what she can and will do - she ordered the maester to give Robin a dangerous drug in order to get Robin off the Eyrie. A cumulative poison. She didn't intend to kill the boy but she was willing to take that risk. And she would do so again.

That is why I suspect that she might be okay with SweetRobin's death.

You think she will save Robin from Littlefinger. I think she might try to, and give him drugs to keep him quiet... and no one to blame but herself if the boy dies.

[Where Boars Glow]

So you're okay with amoral, cruel, sick, psychopathic characters who basically could be serial killers if they lived in our time. But the poor kid who was unfortunate to have such parents should die? Well saying that this is a weird comment would be the understatement of the year.

Saying i am weird would be the understatment of the year.

[Where Boars Glow]

pro life meet pro choice. its the internet man opinions vary.

the kids a walking talking allegory on the question of viability and like in modern times it will be a burgeoning question in the development of her character as she comes of age and into her sexuality and contrasted against the expectations of those in her role and of her station both the readers and in westeros.

its actually a bit hamm handed to be honest with you. cat learns of lysas visit to the midwife after lysa and petyrs encounter at the same time sansa was getting her period in kings landing and after cats death the fact that sansa wont have her mother around to talk about these sort of things. instead she has cersei.

i think this may be one of the things that may be changed due to their no longer being a 5 year gap as early childhood epilepsy can completely disapear with the onset of puberty. sweetrobin would have just gotten better. with no gap the question lingers and its meant to .

i also see sansa's relationship with young jon aryn paralelling tyrions sympathy for "cripples bastards and broken things" opening her eyes to the realities of tyrions experience watching sweetrobin struggle with his own challenges.

Woah woah i was definitely not opening that can of worms. Merely stating that chapters featuring sweet Robin are almost impossible to read for his annoying demeanor.

Not to mention i don't hear anyone defending Joffery the same way....since the parallels are unmistakable. The Kid wants to throw everyone of the top of a mountain to his whims and thoughts. He is a total sociopath. He is the ultimate stark relief of why monarchy is fallacy. He is the weakest least suited, cruelest choice to rule yet in a position of power because of his birth.

For the Arry to remain viable he has to go eventually.

[KhalAllen]

In true GRRM style, I don't think anyone will come to Sansa's rescue. Instead, I believe she will save herself and begin making power plays in tWoW. She has the potential to be powerful (like Cersei), yet level-headed and shrewd.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

In true GRRM style, I don't think anyone will come to Sansa's rescue. Instead, I believe she will save herself and begin making power plays in tWoW. She has the potential to be powerful (like Cersei), yet level-headed and shrewd.

Thank you. someone agreeing with the fact that it would be Grrm style that Sansa saves herself. Grrm likes to mock fantasy archertypes. What better way is there then that sansa, who represents damsel in distress, to save herself.

To the person who answered me above. The reason why i believe sansa will save sweetrobin is because it has been stated that sansa has taken on the mother figure for sweetrobin. A woman/mothers weapon is poison something lysa stated. The fact that sansa has taken the mother role suspiciously foreshadows that sansa will poison little finger to protect sweetrobin. Especially since she has her hairnet with her. Verry convedient dont you think. Plus since sweetrobin has been labeled as "DOOMED TO DIE" kind of indicates he will life. Grrm is a huge troll expect the unexpected.

[KhalAllen]

To the person who answered me above. The reason why i believe sansa will save sweetrobin is because it has been stated that sansa has taken on the mother figure for sweetrobin. A woman/mothers weapon is poison something lysa stated. The fact that sansa has taken the mother role suspiciously foreshadows that sansa will poison little finger to protect sweetrobin. Especially since she has her hairnet with her. Verry convedient dont you think. Plus since sweetrobin has been labeled as "DOOMED TO DIE" kind of indicates he will life. Grrm is a huge troll expect the unexpected.

Unfortunetly I don't see this happening. I believe the spark that ignites Sansa will be SweetRobin's death. After LittleFinger gets rid of the boy, Sansa will take a stand, whether that's killing Baelish somehow, outing him to the Vale Lords, or running away with someone.