Who will come to Sansa's rescue

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Yeah we know he looked like a muscular renly. Doesn't change he was a whore mongering drunken sot.

[FanTasy]

Yeah we know he looked like a muscular renly. Doesn't change he was a whore mongering drunken sot.

It could change the assumption you made in your post though :cool4:

Quote: <Raeghar never kidnapped lyanna. Just cause the fat sot robert was embrassed she perfered the dragon to the stag.>

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

How so? I'm not assuming anything. Just think that lyanna actually liked rhaegar. In the knight of the laughing tree story she cries when rhaegar sings.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Oh so the drunken sot robert...instead fat drunken sot? Doesn't change the storyline. Just the details.

[FanTasy]

Oh so the drunken sot robert...instead fat drunken sot? Doesn't change the storyline. Just the details.

It is possible Robert was not into much drinking, when he was in his ' muscular Renly' state. You can always drop 'drunken' I suppose and be glad with 'sot' :cool4:

[Jay Stark]

I think Sansa will keep quiet. Blackfish i think is most likely to venture, but i think when Sansa reveals herself as Sansa Stark, the hound may come running with his tail a-wagging, at least i hope so. So i think she'll learn more about the game from little finger, and use his weakness against him, reveal herself and win the vale, blackfish and the hound as her guards? But hey i'm just a dreamer :dunce:

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

It is possible Robert was not into much drinking, when he was in his ' muscular Renly' state. You can always drop 'drunken' I suppose and be glad with 'sot' :cool4:

Where do you get that? He was in a drinking competition (and won) at the tourny at harrenhal. And cersei says on their wedding night when he crawled ontop of me smelling of wine and did what he did. What little he could do.

[Tall-Talker]

There are several possibilities. The one I can see happening is Sansa learning how to play the "game" from LF and concocting her own elaborate plan where she doesn't escape but brings doom to LF's schemes. Then finally revealing herself as Sansa Stark.

[Newstar]

That is a horrible idea. Not because [Edric Storm] is younger than Sansa but because of his temper. I think it quite possible that Edric develops in the same direction as his father - and his father was a horrible husband.

Agreed. Baratheons make lousy husband material, from what we've seen, although that's true of Westeros men in general. I remember the short-lived F/M/K thread on the General board and being completely stymied when it came to the "Marry" category. Ha!

Why is everyone for the idea of someone coming to save Sansa? Is Sansa to you guys honestly not capable of saving herself?

If the shoe fits...No, seriously, I think that some might be...skeptical, shall we say, since Sansa has never come up with a plan for saving herself to date. She's capable enough when it comes to implementing others' plans, but she hasn't come up with one on her own, unless you count her impulsive attempt to save Dontos' life. That doesn't mean that she can't, only that she hasn't, to date. Also, these days, anyway, she doesn't really seem to view Littlefinger, or rather "Petyr" as she thinks of him, as a threat from whom she needs to be saved. If she doesn't even recognize him as a threat, how is she going to take the necessary steps to protect herself?

[gingerpunk]

Arya was 11, Sansa was 13, and she betrayed her own father leading to his death... thats about as bad as it gets. I mean it could be considered conspiracy to kinslaying. That being said I think her whole redemption act is about not being a fool anymore.

In the television show Arya was 11 and Sansa 13. The first book started with Sansa at 11 and Arya at 9, I believe.

[Eric v. Melnibonee]

Well, my humble opionion (and at least hope ;-) is that Alayne will rediscover her hidden Sansa and take Sweetrobin out of the Vale helped by Ser Lothor, Mya and Randa, hurrying to the QI where the Gravedigger rejoins the game. Another possibility I would like would be that the Mad Mouse reveals Alanyes's identiy and kidnapps her for the reward. On their way to KL they will meet some familiar faces i.e. BWB, Lady St., Brienne, Jaimie, GDigger. Then they could turn North, washing up with the Boltons and Freys... Ok, I am only dreaming.... However, another serious options for me would be that Alayne on her wedding day with HtH speaks to everyone that she is Sansa Stark, trapped by LF, that she won't be forced to marry HtH and that she trusts the Vale Lords supports her against her enemies.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

In the television show Arya was 11 and Sansa 13. The first book started with Sansa at 11 and Arya at 9, I believe.

You are quite right. Because when she becomes alayne years later. She lies about her age and says she is 14 instead of 13

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I still think its very possible sansa will save herself by learning to be a player and not a pawn.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I agree with you that Sansa's arc will be interesting.

About the Silk hiding steel .. the question is what her steel can be. Unless she stumbles upon a Syrio and starts training, her literal weapons will be limited.

A sharp mind, beauty, experience with the plotting and scheming she learned from Littlefinger, the use of her 'purple serpents'?

Sadly most of these weapons invoke little sympathy.

Shoud we hope for Sansa as a Littlefinger 2.0 or a Cersei 2.0?

Her strongest weapon - again, sadly - is also what is the greatest threat to her: she embodies the claim to Winterfell.

Did you read the link of silk hiding steel trope? "Steel" is purely metaphorically speaking like it is explained on the page. I for one think that the quote: "to porcelain, to ivory, to steel" of Sansa isnt a coincidence. Sansa hides herself behind a wall of courtesies to protect herself. She steels herself. What is Sansa strongest asset? It is quite simple it was the one thing septa mordane thought her: courtesy is a lady's armor. It was what limited her beatings, saved dontos life, calmed those hysterical noble women, what made cersei, tyrion, joffrey and those stupid courtiers think she was airhead and half-witted.

I dont understand what you exactly mean with those weapons not invoking much sympathy?

No. Sansa we never be like cersei and little finger. Though her story will get more darker because of her involvement to sweetrobins poisoning she will never be like them. Though she has her vengeful thoughts she doesnt succumb into them. I see sansa being a player in the middle ground. Not overalls honorable as ned, but neither amoral as petyr. It does irk me a lot when people believe someone is going to save Sansa. It make no sense and absolutely doesn't add up if someone is gonna save Sansa. I see possible ALLIES in lothor, other vale bannermen, jaime, brienme and blackfish for sansa. But saving her? No just no. It will make no sense whatsoever.

[Mad Madam Mim]

As much as i like the idea of her becoming an independant women and saving her self, practically I don't see how she could acomplish this. Sansa is not stupid but she is not a worldy character like Ayra who is self-sufficient and can survive in the big wide world on her own. Sansa could not save herself through physical means, if she escaped the Vale then she wouldn't last long enough on her own to be able to find help. The only way she would be able to save herself would be to manipulate her current situation to her advantage and possibly commit a few unforgivable acts. This would likely involve going down a dark path and becoming somebody she is not meant to be. By going down this road she might be able to save herself in a sense of physically removing herself from harm, but the cost of achieving this is that it would involve sacrificing saving her spirit. I wouldn't consider this as a saved Sansa at all, but a very lost Sansa for needs saving from herself..

Therefore in order get out of her current sitation without losing too much of herself along the way and be a Sansa worth saving, she will need someone else...i vote sandor

[Queen Sansa Stark]

The only unforgiveable act sansa will do is get rid of LF. And that isnt even bad, because she will be saving herself, sweetrobin and the vale from pedobear. There is nothing wrong with manipulating, especially if it is meant to save yourself. Anyone who believes that Sansa is incapable of saving herself and cause the downfall of LF it is within your right, but don't be surprised when she does so. In fact it is almost shoved in our faces how Sansa will go on from WOW. Do you think it is a coincidence that she is in the vale. A kingdom unspoiled by war plus when the bannermens of the vale are pretty much Stark loyalists? I so do not thinks so. Grrm would not make little finger "teach" her if Sansa doesnt become a player.

[Tini]

Getting rid of Littlefinger would not be unforgivable as far as I am concerned. I just don't see it happening.

Sansa is drifting farther and farther away from getting rid of Littlefinger, so I will be very surprised if she does. It is no longer Littleginger's plans in her mind, it is their plans.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Getting rid of Littlefinger would not be unforgivable as far as I am concerned. I just don't see it happening.

Sansa is drifting farther and farther away from getting rid of Littlefinger, so I will be very surprised if she does. It is no longer Littleginger's plans in her mind, it is their plans.

I think this is why Grrm deliberately left sansa's thoughts out in her last chapter. Not just to cause a cliffhanger, but also surprise us. For all we know Sansa could be horrified at what is happening to sweetrobin and/or is fed up with sixth marriage arrangment and decides to use her hairnet in the very first chapter. I do not see this happening, but this is merely an example that grrm left a very open beginning for sansa in awow. Personally i can see Sansa getting over the shock at lysa's death and put 2 and 2 together in her first few chapters in wow, and realize just how much pedobear orchestrated the downfall of her family. Since a dream of spring will be the book where the starks (and with them I mean Sansa and Rickon ) coming back wow will probably be about how the stark rising back up again gradually. Sansa being in the vale isnt a coincidence. So I can see Sansa making allies at the vale, especially in lothor and mya, and getting rid of pedobear at the ending of TWOW so Sansa will be in charge of vale, ore least have a big part of it. I can see Sansa's story ending this way in wow. And only see in ADOS what Sansa and the vale will do.

[FanTasy]

- Did you read the link of silk hiding steel trope? "Steel" is purely metaphorically speaking like it is explained on the page.

- I dont understand what you exactly mean with those weapons not invoking much sympathy?

- No. Sansa we never be like cersei and little finger. Though her story will get more darker because of her involvement to sweetrobins poisoning she will never be like them. Though she has her vengeful thoughts she doesnt succumb into them. I see sansa being a player in the middle ground.

- Yes, thank you, I've read quite a few posts of that thread. It could be a bit blunt to question if people have read something if one is of an other opinion, but hey, no offense taken here :drunk:

- Weapons that possibly would not invoke sympathy are using poison (they are seen as weapons of cowards and the weak) and the scheming and plotting, manipulating, using people.

- Untill GRRM tells us what Sansa's arc will be, we have only personal interpretations based on how we are touched by the text. Nothing wrong with this though, that is what these threads are about.

Edited, poor English

[gingerpunk]

How so? I'm not assuming anything. Just think that lyanna actually liked rhaegar. In the knight of the laughing tree story she cries when rhaegar sings.

This is off topic but it seems to me that Rhaegar was hardly the type to carry off a woman and rape her. Maybe if I had only read A Game of Thrones, I could assume this to be true, but we've learned far too much about Rhaegar and Lyanna to assume that Robert's version of the events are accurate. I don't find Robert to be all that honorable. He was a terrible king who bankrupted his kingdom, a horrible husband who preferred the company of whores to his own wife (yeah, I know, that wife was Cersei, and she's also unfaithful and about as big a bitch as they come, but I can't help but wonder if Cersei would have been a better wife had Robert been a better husband), he was a glutton and, as Ned pointed out in spite of all the love he had for the man, cowardly enough to order the assassination of a child because he felt she was a threat to his throne. Also, Robert is at least in part to blame for the monster that was Joffrey. I know that Joffrey is a product of an incestual union, and his madness may stem from inbreeding, as inferred, but at least part of his cruelty was learned from the man he called father. Needless to say, I had little respect for Robert Barratheon from the very first book, and I often found myself wondering how a man like Ned could be so loyal to him. I know they were raised as brothers, and I know Ned is inwardly questioning the man Robert's become in the first novel, but there are also a few things there to suggest that this cruel streak has always existed inside the man... such as the fact that Ned warns Cersei before telling Robert. That suggests to me that it is the Robert that Ned knows and loves that will slaughter two innocent children and one little prick that he raised as his own.

What we learn of Rhaegar throughout the rest of the series suggests he was a capable warrior and a beautiful and intelligent man who seems to have been remarkably in touch with his feminine side. The only evidence we have condemning him as a tyrant and a rapist comes from Robert himself, as well as the knowledge of what Rhaegar's father was. Throughout the books, it seems the only people who did not hold Rhaegar in high regard were Robert Barratheon and Eddard Stark, and I feel that Eddard's opinion was highly influenced by his friend whom he (wrongly) trusted.

Lyanna, well, as the series progresses we get the impression that she was much like Arya. Now, we know Arya is willfull and resourceful as a child... can we imagine her as a fully grown woman? I can see the appeal of such a woman for a man like Rhaegar, and, as for Lyanna, I cannot see her wishing to marry someone like Robert. Once more, with the comparisons drawn to Arya throughout all the books, I would easily assume that the thought of being married to the arrogant and philandering Robert did not appeal to Lyanna at all. Of course, most of this is speculation taken from context, but once again I must ask, is it so easy to reconcile the person Robert Barratheon claims Rhaegar to have been with the description given of him by nearly every other character in the books?

Already, I have these romantic notions in my head concerning the story between Rhaegar and Lyanna. These were two intensely complex individuals, and I imagine that something within the one spoke to the other's soul. The pertinent question would be, if it were Arya, and she were in love with one man, yet promised to another, what could you see her doing? Although Arya is on a completely different path than the ill-fated Lyanna, I believe that the both of them have enough in common to consciously decide to be masters of their destinies, instead of victims of it.