Moments of Foreshadowing 2

[Pelican]

Newstar: "Slaying" to me connotes not poison or some other subtle or indirect form of violence (like getting someone to do it for her), but straight up violent killing.

Fair enough, but I don't see these prophecies as being parsed so specifically, and 'kill' falls within the definition of 'slay.' 'Savage' to me does not fall within the definition of 'doll.' [And Sansa was in the role of the giant when she decapitated the doll.] Maybe the twist to the maiden/castle of snow prophecy is that it foreshadows something yet to occur.

[TywinSonOfTytos]

In AGoT when Sansa is watching the tourney of the Hand, and sees Jon Arryn's squire die, she says:

"It would be different if it were Jory or Ser Rodrik or Father, she told herself."

Later, these 3 men would die, Jory and Ned in AGoT and Ser Rodrik in ACoK.

[Scipio Africanus]

You assume that "slay" must mean picking up an actual weapon and using it in a traditionally combative sense. I wouldn't think of it in such narrow terms. If anything, the dynamic between Littlefinger and Sansa seems to hint that at some point, the pupil will get wise and turn on the master, especially when she learns about his role in her family's demise (and she will, of that I have no doubt). In terms of political intrigue, there's more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to slay someone. Think outside the box.

What, like the Sith? :P

I know about the Baelish sigil, but you'd think that Ghost's prophecy would be that a maiden would slay a mockingbird rather then a stone giant.

And it would tie up with another classic, to kill a mockingbird. ;)

But yes I too believe Sansa will somehow play a role in LF's downfall yes.

[ARYa_Nym]

I don't really agree that Arya is everything that Margaery is not. Sansa liked Margaery for superficial reasons and we know that she miscalculated with the Tyrells.

"Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world's graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went..."

Sansa said something similar about Myrcella.

“I don’t care what you say, I’m going out riding.” Her long horsey face got that stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful...All she wanted for things to be nice and pretty, the way they were in the songs. Why couldn’t Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked to have a sister like that."

Anyways, on Margaery and Arya. Yes, Margaery is feminine while Arya is a tomboy. However, Arya and Margaery have things in common such as their admiration above all for their brothers-Jon and Loras. Their loyalty to them. While Margaery plays at sweet we know underneath she actually has thorns while Arya has claws.

As well as horseriding, Margaery likes to do a lot of activities that Arya herself likes to do.

She seldom let more than three days pass without going off for a ride. Some days they would ride along the Rosby road to hunt for shells and eat beside the sea. Other times she would take her entourage across the river for an afternoon of hawking. The little queen was fond of going out on boats as well, sailing up and down the Blackwater Rush to no particular purpose…and had even been known to visit the fish market by the Mud Gate for a look at the day’s catch.

“We could have had such a lovely time together. The trees are gowned in gold and red and orange, and there are flowers everywhere. Chestnuts too. We roasted some on our way home.” “I have no time for riding through the woods and picking flowers,” Cersei said. “I have a kingdom to rule.”

She also had the tendency to speak to commoners even if some of it may have been due to PR.

"Wherever she went, the smallfolk fawned on her, and Lady Margaery did all she could to fan their ardor. She was forever giving alms to beggars, buying hot pies off bakers’ carts, and reining up to speak to common tradesmen."

While I'm skeptical of theories that have her dying so quickly I don't think Arya will impersonate her. Her next pretty face will be for something else I think. She's staying in Braavos for a while more.

[Scipio Africanus]

While I'm skeptical of theories that have her dying so quickly I don't think Arya will impersonate her. Her next pretty face will be for something else I think. She's staying in Braavos for a while more.

I hope you're wrong, I don't want Arya turning into Dany II, she needs to get back to Westeros and start killing baddies.

[Kanon]

Did anyone discuss this yet?

"The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps, itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under her bare feet. There were so many …

It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he'd built it himself.

Viserys told her tales of knights so poor that they had to sleep beneath the ancient hedges that grew along the byways of the Seven Kingdoms. Dany would have given much and more for a nice thick hedge. Preferably one without an anthill."

Is this GRRM confirming that we will have Dany vs WW?

[Ice Turtle]

Jon shrugged. “Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

Jon has already given Arya a sword, somehow I still expect Arya giving him arms (house name) in some way.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Did anyone discuss this yet?

"The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps, itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under her bare feet. There were so many …

It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he'd built it himself.

Viserys told her tales of knights so poor that they had to sleep beneath the ancient hedges that grew along the byways of the Seven Kingdoms. Dany would have given much and more for a nice thick hedge. Preferably one without an anthill."

Is this GRRM confirming that we will have Dany vs WW?

Yeah i think thats the consensus of the scene.....I think it may hint that the first time Dany fights the others its a trap (where did they come from)......the wolves can sniff out wights, but without them you wouldn't know if there were wights hidden beneath the snow

[Bushido]

Jon shrugged. “Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

Jon has already given Arya a sword, somehow I still expect Arya giving him arms (house name) in some way.

What a splendid idea! :)

[Fire Eater]

AFfC Sam II Describing Skagos: "The island sat at the mouth of the Bay of Seals, massive and mountainous, a stark and forbidding land."

This is hinting at Rickon's location.

Also Nimble Dick is pointing out stones in certain shapes:

"There's an ogre's head, see? And there's a stone dragon. T'other wing fell off when my father was a boy. Above it, that's the dugs drooping down, like some hag's teats."

The ogre's head could be Gregor's, who is the stone giant from Bran's vision.

The stone dragon could refer to two wings of the dragon: Targaryen and Blackfyre. The Blackfyre wing of the dragon fell when Barristan the Bold slew Maelys the Monstrous at the time Dick's father was a boy.

Or it could refer to Daenerys, a grounded dragon who can't go anywhere with her wing clipped to go with events relating to Cersei's future.

Or to the stone dragon Melisandre might summon.

The dugs drooping down like some hag's teats could refer to either Maggy,

her dugs hung down to her knees

or rather Cersei in her WoS

Without a gown to hold them up they sagged against her chest.

[Bushido]

AFfC Sam II Describing Skagos: "The island sat at the mouth of the Bay of Seals, massive and mountainous, a stark and forbidding

land."

This is hinting at Rickon's location.

And perhaps,Skagosi eventual,unshakable allegiance.

[Dunk tha Lunk]

.

Or it could refer to Daenerys, a grounded dragon who can't go anywhere with her wing clipped to go with events relating to Cersei's future.

Wing clipped?? i cant remember this, whats that all about?

[Scipio Africanus]

Jon shrugged. “Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

Jon has already given Arya a sword, somehow I still expect Arya giving him arms (house name) in some way.

Would be a nice twist but it's hard to see how she'd give Jon arms.

[Fire Eater]

Wing clipped?? i cant remember this, whats that all about?

Dany feels powerless when she lets Hizdahr make the treaty. A dragon missing a wing can't fly, or walk, and Dany can't find it in her to leave Meereen at the moment.

[tze]

Is this GRRM confirming that we will have Dany vs WW?

I think there are a number of possibilities there:

1) The "ant" episode might represent the fate of Volantis. Here, we have a "wall" (the Black Wall) with a scion of the Old Blood of Valyria (Dany) on one side, and ants (ordinary people) on the other side. The ants streaming over the wall and biting Dany could symbolize the slaves of Volantis getting past the Black Wall and attacking the Old Blood nobility on the other side.

2) This episode could represent the fate of Westeros vis a vis the Others. In the House of the Undying (if the common interpretation is correct), Dany saw a beautiful woman being mutilated by small biting creatures, representing the kings who were ripping apart Westeros. Here, Dany is a beautiful woman being swarmed by small biting creatures (ants) during the night. This might not have anything to do with Dany in a practical sense---the point might just be to paint the image of a beautiful woman being swarmed by an army in the night, representing the Others attacking Westeros during a new Long Night. (Especially given that Dany, like Westeros, isn't exactly in tiptop shape at the moment.)

3) Although, this could actually represent the Dothraki rampaging over Westeros. In this same chapter, Dany thinks that from dragonback horses look like ants. The ants crossing the tumblestone wall could represent the Dothraki crossing their own great barrier---the Narrow Sea. Dany goes from brushing off the ants here to, later in the chapter, hoping to grab some ants to nourish her. This could represent the manner in which Dany first rejected the Dothraki (by refusing to adhere to the requirement that she go to Vaes Dothrak) to her now seeking them out because she now needs them to survive. The ants biting Dany could represent the Dothraki causing Dany more harm than good. For that matter, the ants swarming over Dany and causing some damage (but not too much) could represent the Dothraki horde swarming over Westeros and causing some damage (but not too much) before being crushed, possibly by the Westerosi knights (as Dany's thoughts randomly turn from the Wall to hedge knights).

4) This episode could symbolize the danger Quaithe poses to Dany. When Dany falls asleep beside the tumblestone wall, she dreams of flying among the stars, stars which repeat Quaithe's "To go north, you must go south" warning, telling Dany to remember who she is ("The dragons know. Do you?). But it's while she's dreaming of flying through the air, listening to Quaithe's words, that the ants come over the wall and start crawling all over (and biting) her. By the time she finally wakes up, the damage is already done---for while Quaithe's words distracted her, the ants moved in and started biting her, and by the time she finally got rid of them, her body was already covered in itchy, inflamed ant bites. The dream/ant incident could symbolize Quaithe's warnings distracting Dany from the true dangers she faces.

5) This symbolism could have implications that have nothing to do with Dany. Dany pointing out that Viserys spoke about the Wall "as proud as if he'd built it himself", given who readers are told actually built the Wall---the first King in the North, Brandon "the Builder" Stark---could be a hint that the foreshadowed fate is Stark-centric, not Dany-centric. In AGOT, Jon sees the Watchmen in the distance as "men in black as small as ants". And here, we have the ants swarming over the "sleeping dragon" (Dany the Targ), biting and swarming, right up until that "sleeping dragon" finally awakes and crushes those ants . . . well, there are plenty of potential implications there. Jon was just attacked by a group that he once said looked like ants---this could foreshadow his resurrection (and the fate of the Watchmen who attacked him). Our most infamous "sleeping dragon", Bloodraven, is currently hanging out beyond the Wall with this generation's Brandon Stark---the ants attacking (and being crushed by) Dany could represent some form of future attack being carried out on, and crushed by, Bloodraven.

I could try eating ants. The little yellow ones were too small to provide much in the way of nourishment, but there were red ants in the grass, and those were bigger.

In the past, we saw Dany destroy the nobility of Astapor (the Red City) while leaving the nobility of Yunkai (the Yellow City) alone. On the Dothraki Sea, a starving Dany considers eating ants, and thinks going after the red ants would be more worthwhile than going after the yellow ants. This repeated emphasis on Dany attacking the red instead of the yellow could foreshadow Dany's choices in Westeros. The "red" enemy would probably be Aegon (who's going to be fighting beneath the red dragon banner of House Targaryen), while the "yellow" enemy could be either Stannis (if he survives that long) or Tommen (ditto), per the golden stag of Baratheon and the golden lion of Lannister (with the idea being that either Stannis or Tommen will have been weakened so much by Aegon that Dany will attack the greater threat, Aegon, instead of the smaller threat, Stannis or Tommen). It's also possible that the "red ants" symbolize Euron Greyjoy (whose personal sigil includes a red eye), while the "yellow ants" represent Victarion Greyjoy (as per the golden kraken), thus symbolizing Dany choosing Euron over Victarion.

Jon shrugged. “Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

Jon has already given Arya a sword, somehow I still expect Arya giving him arms (house name) in some way.

I think the fact that Jon says "I did not make the rules", but then later proves that he can "make the rules" (by giving Arya a sword---by making "new" rules), is a hint that Jon will eventually be the person "making the rules", i.e. he'll end up as a King.

[PatrickStormborn]

Did anyone discuss this yet?

"The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps, itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under her bare feet. There were so many …

It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he'd built it himself.

Viserys told her tales of knights so poor that they had to sleep beneath the ancient hedges that grew along the byways of the Seven Kingdoms. Dany would have given much and more for a nice thick hedge. Preferably one without an anthill."

Is this GRRM confirming that we will have Dany vs WW?

Yeah, it points to what has been clear since AGoT: Dany will clash with the white walkers/Others. I imagine that they're going to cross the Wall around the same time as she lands in Westeros (Dragonstone/King's Landing).

[Ice Turtle]

Lord Mace Tyrell came forward to present his gift: a golden chalice three feet tall, with two ornate curved handles and seven faces glittering with gemstones. “Seven faces for Your Grace’s seven kingdoms,” the bride’s father explained. He showed them how each face bore the sigil of one of the great houses: ruby lion, emerald rose, onyx stag, silver trout, blue jade falcon, opal sun, and pearl direwolf.

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig’s eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger’s eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl.

I wonder if these two parts are somehow connected. Silver trout is out. Pearl direwolf and green pearl doesn't seem to agree entirely. Black diamond is for Targaryens. tiger's eye may represent Volantis. Well maybe, maybe not :dunno: , but Varys is surely moving great houses as they were mere jewels on his hands.

[richard_ba]

Good point Ice Turtle, lets check out colors (assuming the common shades)

Onyx - Black

Opal - Opal can assume any color, however red and black are are, whereas green and white are the most common (or green with white shades, or the contrary), I'll take it as white opal

Tiger's Eye - Golden

Tourmaline - It varies, rarely it is colorless, and it often comes with dual shade, the most common are green and pink (lets assume it is pink or even pink and green)

Ruby - Red

Amethyst - Purple

Sapphire - Blue

Emerald - Green

Jet - Usually Smoke (somewhat grey)

Jade - Green

Black Diamond - Usually grey

Green Pearl, needless to say

[Viserys_The Transformed]

this was pry done but....

The old gods

stir and will not let me sleep,” she heard the woman say. “I dreamt I saw a shadow with a

burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a

bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging

from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with

red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt,

and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?”

first one is renly's death

last is obviously cat

the middle seems to b balon and euron or i guess a faceless man hired to kill balon with the crowes eye on on his shoulder....something about the seaweed doesen's sit right with me though..........i dunno

I interpret it as

A Faceless Man in form of Aeron Damphair who is hired by Euron and kills Balon....

What say ?

[richard_ba]

OMG these are major houses in the game

Onyx, House Targaryen

Opal, House Stark

Tiger's Eye, House Martel

Tourmaline, House Bolton

Ruby, House Lannister

Amethyst, House Tully (a soft blue with a almost salmon red COA)

Sapphire, House Arryn

Emerald, House Tyrell

Jet, House Greyjoy

Jade, House Tarly

Black Diamond, House Blackfyre

Green Pearl, I can't find any strong correlation, perhaps House Mormont?