Wun Drop Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, you guys have told me to disregard the Old Testament to understand Christianity. Jesus says in Matthew that he's come to fulfill the Law, but you guys have also told me that the Law is only what pertains to such and so in various Old Testament books - but not Genesis. So I am wondering how exactly to understand Genesis, or if I should be throwing that out completely, along with the woman beholden to her husband thing.Are you seriously here to "understand Christianity" or do you in fact have an agenda? :)@Mlle. Zabzie in Catholicism these days we have a new translation of the Apostle's Creed. I (and many others) were shocked by one of the changes, can you guess which one? :)I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Are you seriously here to "understand Christianity" or do you in fact have an agenda? :)@Mlle. Zabzie in Catholicism these days we have a new translation of the Apostle's Creed. I (and many others) were shocked by one of the changes, can you guess which one? :)I like the one with the little "c" catholic church. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 They dropped the filioque? Looking for a reconciliation with the Orthodox church, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Treat any part of the Bible like you would a suit - tug in the areas that are excessive, trim off the bits that don't fit, and then sew a new seam so it fits you. Voila!Allegory with some tomfoolery.God gave you a brain and free will. Use em. If something in the Old Testament speaks to you as a good life-lesson. Use it. If it sounds fishy and contradictory to the teachings of Jesus, toss it out.Easy, peasy.You guys are basically telling me that cherry-picking the Bible is a commonly understood practice, and that you can still be a good Christian even if you cherry-pick the parts that allow a man to physically assault a woman or denigrate her. This is not helping Bong's argument about peace and forgiveness being characteristic of Christianity.Edit: Wun Drop, I already told everyone that I have no clue about anything in the Bible, and I am a Christianity novice (except for the parts that require me to sing various masses in Latin). I'm sorry dude, but I'm calling it as I see it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Allegory with some tomfoolery.God gave you a brain and free will. Use em. If something in the Old Testament speaks to you as a good life-lesson. Use it. If it sounds fishy and contradictory to the teachings of Jesus, toss it out.Easy, peasy.Curious: what happens when the brain and the free will are used to determine that the whole story is a load of horseshit?(Trick question: I know the answer. Suddenly my brain and free will become terrible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Not every. But very many. Certainly, the monotheistic religions are in the top 5.Which religions aren't oppressive to women? [Or can't be interpreted as such.]eta: I guess Wicca and, AFAIK, Scientology.I can see an argument being made that religions where one does not have to accept any Scripture as true have feminist offshoots.But then it seems to me one such religion is, in fact, Christianity. People can argue about it, but the answer to "What does it take to be Christian?" seems to be "believe Jesus offers salvation?"...done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Curious: what happens when the brain and the free will are used to determine that the whole story is a load of horseshit?(Trick question: I know the answer. Suddenly my brain and free will become terrible).Nah. It just means you're at a different place on the path, brother. Just keep chugging along. You'll get to where you need to be sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You guys are basically telling me that cherry-picking the Bible is a commonly understood practice, and that you can still be a good Christian even if you cherry-pick the parts that allow a man to physically assault a woman or denigrate her. This is not helping Bong's argument about peace and forgiveness being characteristic of Christianity.Well, we see it as cherry-picking.They call it faith-inspired reading. Or an on-going interrogative process of understanding the Bible. Or something else.There are certainly approaches that are more intellectually honest, and more rooted in scholarship and tradition, than others. Just because the Bible requires that we engage in some cherry-picking, it doesn't mean that all forms of cherry-picking are legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Which religions aren't oppressive to women? [Or can't be interpreted as such.]eta: I guess Wicca and, AFAIK, Scientology.I can see an argument being made that religions where one does not have to accept any Scripture as true have feminist offshoots.But then it seems to me one such religion is, in fact, Christianity. People can argue about it, but the answer to "What does it take to be Christian?" seems to be "believe Jesus offers salvation?"...done.Daoism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You guys are basically telling me that cherry-picking the Bible is a commonly understood practice, and that you can still be a good Christian even if you cherry-pick the parts that allow a man to physically assault a woman or denigrate her. This is not helping Bong's argument about peace and forgiveness being characteristic of Christianity.Edit: Wun Drop, I already told everyone that I have no clue about anything in the Bible, and I am a Christianity novice (except for the parts that require me to sing various masses in Latin). I'm sorry dude, but I'm calling it as I see it right now.Here's the thing - if you cherry pick the nasty bits instead of throwing them out, you're not a very good Christian. Christians are all part of the same family of Christ. Just because someone does something bad and goes off to jail doesn't mean they're not a part of the family anymore. That just means they fucked up. They still have a place at the table, even if the views they hold are wrong-headed and mean. But, it's up to the rest of us that know what's up to let them know that they're on the wrong path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wun Drop Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 One author recently tried to live 1 year following the Bible literally, no cherry-picking: http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalThor Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This isn't biblical, but interestingly, the Creed doesn't in general focus on the Law, the Old Testament, or, in fact, anything like that. It's much more concerned with the nature of the Trinity (yay, schisms!), and the eternal effect of becoming a Christian. However, it does say that God spoke through the Prophets.@Mlle. Zabzie in Catholicism these days we have a new translation of the Apostle's Creed. I (and many others) were shocked by one of the changes, can you guess which one? :)They dropped the filioque? Looking for a reconciliation with the Orthodox church, perhaps?I actually went to a Catholic church with my mom this summer and realized the changes that were made are actually a lot closer to the Greek version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsun Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 yea, the thing is, you can call the christians antigay bigots all you want, and i guess they are. but that doesnt matter if theyre right. if theyre right, and god is real and the bible is actually the word of said omnipotent creator god, then their views are right, and things like promiscuity and homosexuality are actually objectively bad. thats why theyre able to stick to their beliefs that are so often looked down upon and attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Daoism?Hmmmm, maybe? I googled and will be reading this later.I also have a CD filled with the world's scripture, might have to look through that as well.eta: The CD is just the offline version of the Sacred Text Archive by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wun Drop Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Good guess, but the phrase that shocked me was "He descended into hell." I just can't fathom the theological basis for Jesus going to hell. Anyone understand why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Good guess, but the phrase that shocked me was "He descended into hell." I just can't fathom the theological basis for Jesus going to hell. Anyone understand why?IIRC, saving those who believed in the Messiah but preceded Jesus giving his blood for the salvation of humankind?eta: There's also the Daoist Studies website Min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 ...But if Jesus is God... and God cannot be tempted by the devil... I'm confused, someone explain this please.This question caused a large number of splits in the early church, and there are still different interpretations in some branches. There is a great post out there explaining it, I'll see if I can find a nice link.edit: only another forum, so I won't link (Abdul's post of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Allegory with some tomfoolery.God gave you a brain and free will. Use em. If something in the Old Testament speaks to you as a good life-lesson. Use it. If it sounds fishy and contradictory to the teachings of Jesus, toss it out.Easy, peasy.If you can make personal value judgments about the Old Testament like that, what's up with all of you guys using Leviticus to persecute homosexuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wun Drop Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 What's interesting is that they specifically changed it to "descended into hell" last year for some unspecified reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wun Drop Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If you can make personal value judgments about the Old Testament like that, what's up with all of you guys using Leviticus to persecute homosexuals?You might be surprised to learn some Christians are quite tolerant of homosexuals... in fact, there are Christian homosexuals! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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