Jamie Lannister- Most honest and honorable character?

[JaegrM]

Has he lied at all during the series?

I can't think of any time he has,

He didn't deny throwing Bran and hoping it killed him.

Never denied the incestuous affair with Cersei when asked.

Another example that kind of in a way highlights this in the books-

In aFFC ( I believe, possibly SoS) He's dining with some people and was discussing someone that he disliked and commented 'He was very strong' which was the only true compliment he could think of.

Instead of an untrue compliment for the sake of the other people, he searches for a true one, so as not to lie.

Anyway, this kind of sounds like I'm rambling,

I hope this post is coherent enough to make sense.

So is the Lion of Lannister actually one of the most honorable characters in the series?

As he points out, some of his knightly vows are contradictory.

Bran, Kingslaying were to protect his family, in a way honorable.

Affair with Cersei.... Does that technically break his Kingsgaurd vows? Isn't he forbidden from marrying, is he actually forbidden from banging anyone? Isn't it pointed out to Oakheart that since he's not married, his little affair is cool?

[The Lord's Kiss]

Davos.

[Rolex Baratheon]

He had the potential to be an honourable knight like Arthur Dayne if he had not committed that one Kingslaying and not slept with his sister. He has his own view of honour, which has few but significant differences from the honour of guys like Ned or Barristan.

He had a lot of enthusiasm to be the perfect knight, but one incident ruined it all for him.

[JaegrM]

Didn't Davos admit to Melisandre that he had banged women outside his marriage?

[maximilian]

Brienne, Davos and the Ned (possibly Jon Arryn too) are the most honourable characters.

Even if he wanted to protect his family, attempted murder of a 9 year old is hardly honourable.

Neither is fucking your married sister.

[JaegrM]

He had the potential to be an honourable knight like Arthur Dayne if he had not committed that one Kingslaying and not slept with his sister. He has his own view of honour, which has few but significant differences from the honour of guys like Ned or Barristan.

He had a lot of enthusiasm to be the perfect knight, but one incident ruined it all for him.

I honestly believe Ned would protect his family the same way Jamie did, and be a kingslayer himself in that situation.

Selmy... Not sure if he would, not enough POV to say he would with any certainty, but he probably would have as well.

I think 99.9% of the characters would act as Jamie did in that situation, particularly the honorable ones.

His affair with Cersei....

Incesteous.... and technically treason against Robert....

But on the other hand, he's been 100% faithful to Cersei, he's known no other women.

[Franz95]

The point is that a good act does not wash out te bad, as the guy in my profile picture is fond of mentioning. You're not honorable because you admit the shit you've done, you're honorable because you don't do it. If you swore a vow to guard the king, you don't kill him, period. I really really like Jaime, but "most honorable man in Westeros" is not the definition I would use for him.

[JaegrM]

Brienne, Davos and the Ned (possibly Jon Arryn too) are the most honourable characters.

Even if he wanted to protect his family, attempted murder of a 9 year old is hardly honourable.

Neither is fucking your married sister.

Brienne... I may concede this one...

Technically she's lied and slunk away from companions in the middle of the night...

A small argument, but that's all I've got.

Davos, I've already pointed out, he's known women outside of his marriage, you could also say he was a smuggler.

In aGoT Ned has to do dishonorable things, he even comments on how doing those things makes him feel soiled and leaves a bitter taste in his mouth.

[Danelle]

Davos.

Davos is honest but he is in an abusive relationship. He does everything because he loves Stannis. Jaime was in an abusive relationship, obeying Cersei until he lost his hand and sudenly he started thinking for himself.

So is the Lion of Lannister actually one of the most honorable characters in the series?

:agree: But be prepared for countless posts telling you that you are wrong and that Jaime Lannister is evil and is the one who killed Bambi's mother, amongst other things.

[maria underfoot]

Calling him the most honorable character is a stretch, because as maxmilian pointed out, pushing Bran wasn't honorable, though some (myself included) might find it justifiable.

But he is honest, probably one of the most straight-forward, says-what-he-thinks-regardless-of-the-consequences kind of man in the series.

That's probably why we love him :P

[Jaime's Wench]

I have always said he is 'one of the most honourable' characters in the book. However, he does not take his honour to the Ned Stark level of stupidity. If he had, King's Landing would have turned to ashes along with many innocent people.

Pushing Bran from the window will always be the sticking point for readers. I have to be true to myself as someone who has 'honour but not to a stupid level' -- would I have done the same for my own kids and lover? Answer - yes.

But the OP is right, he always acts with honour when given the choice of whether to. He commands respect from his troops that way. It doesn't stop most from judging him harshly, though. The fact he continues to act with honour even though *nobody* thinks he has honour makes him even more honourable in my eyes. In some ways, you could say it is easy for Ned to be honourable. His honour was never put on trial until after Robert's death.

[Keirut]

He lied to his aunt Genna about Ser Cleos death, He told her it was an honorable one, and that he died fighintg, while he died smashing his head on the land.

[SerStinger]

Slitting Aerys's throat was the most honorable thing someone has done in the series. Sleeping with Cersei was reckless, but not immoral (in my book). Pushing Bran out of the window was necessary to save his own life, so while a very bad thing to do, understandable.

Yes, he is one of the better characters.

[JaegrM]

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[Onarjyo Khsatriya]

But he is honest, probably one of the most straight-forward, says-what-he-thinks-regardless-of-the-consequences kind of man in the series.

That's probably why we love him :P

like the Hound

[Sevumar]

I think that, after losing his hand in Storm, Jaime begins to act more honorably, but that doesn't make him an honorable person. It doesn't wipe out the terrible things he's done prior to that and anything he might do in the future. The improvements in Jaime's character do not follow a realignment with Westeros's honor system, so much as a growth in ways we would recognize as becoming a better person.

He had the potential to be an honourable knight like Arthur Dayne if he had not committed that one Kingslaying and not slept with his sister. He has his own view of honour, which has few but significant differences from the honour of guys like Ned or Barristan.

He had a lot of enthusiasm to be the perfect knight, but one incident ruined it all for him.

You know, for all the curses people heap on Jaime for killing Aerys, it's probably the single best and most meaningful act of his life. Yes, it was outside the code of conduct for a knight, especially one of the Kingsguard, but in Jaime's position the moral responsibility of acting to prevent the murders of hundreds of thousands of people by Aerys far outweighs any petty concerns about honor.

I actually think it's incredibly honorable to keep Aerys's intentions (and the true reason for the kingslaying) to himself all these years, when he could have used the information to try to clear his name or rehabilitate his reputation.

[Matt O'Sevens]

Honest? Maybe. Except for the fact that he isn't telling everyone that he fucked his sister and fathered her 3 children. He tells Ilyn Payne, but only because he has no tongue. He also lies about a few other things

Honorable? Not quite. He's getting there, but just because he is being honorable now, doesn't make up for all the things he's done. I'm not even gonna hold Aerys against him. Put he pushed a little boy out of a window, trying to kill him, just so he could continue to fuck his sister in secret. He is making up for it, but he is not the most honorable in the series.

[A Time for Wolves]

Honest? Maybe. Except for the fact that he isn't telling everyone that he fucked his sister and fathered her 3 children. He tells Ilyn Payne, but only because he has no tongue. He also lies about a few other things

Honorable? Not quite. He's getting there, but just because he is being honorable now, doesn't make up for all the things he's done. I'm not even gonna hold Aerys against him. Put he pushed a little boy out of a window, trying to kill him, just so he could continue to fuck his sister in secret. He is making up for it, but he is not the most honorable in the series.

Agreed. We shouldn't excuse him just because we want to bang him. Wait, what?

[maximilian]

Brienne... I may concede this one...

Technically she's lied and slunk away from companions in the middle of the night...

A small argument, but that's all I've got.

She did but with good reason and without harming anyone.

Davos, I've already pointed out, he's known women outside of his marriage, you could also say he was a smuggler.

Fair point.

In aGoT Ned has to do dishonorable things, he even comments on how doing those things makes him feel soiled and leaves a bitter taste in his mouth.

I'm not sure what things you mean?

[JaegrM]

Okay-

With Aerys and the Kingslaying...

Isn't he MORE honor bound to disobey his King and not commit Kinslaying?

The books seem to imply that Kingslaying is bad, but kinslaying is the most dishonorable and grievious sin you can commit.

Is it kinslaying if he allowed Bran to tell anyone what he saw, knowing it would be the death of his sister and possibly his children ?