JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 How skilled in Jon in relation to other characters known for their prowess as swordsman(Such as Jaime, Sandor, Selmy, whoever)?I used to place him as just another guy who's good with a sword, but never thought him anything special.I just finished another complete re-read though, and he wasn't completely embarassed against Mance, he did hold his own, and they both ended up on the ground.Mance was pretty much established to be the best of the best, he had to defeat other wildling 'lords' for their loyalty.All I could find in Jon's own words was that he was a better rider and sword than Robb, and that was before his pretty non-stop training on the Wall.Is it safe to assume he could hang with Jamie(two hands) and Selmy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 He demolished Iron Emmett who is best of east watch while having a dream. He's pretty up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 How skilled in Jon in relation to other characters known for their prowess as swordsman(Such as Jaime, Sandor, Selmy, whoever)?I used to place him as just another guy who's good with a sword, but never thought him anything special.I just finished another complete re-read though, and he wasn't completely embarassed against MAnce, he did hold his own, and they both ended up on the ground.Mance was pretty much established to be the best of the best, he had to defeat other wildling 'lords' for their loyalty.All I could find in Jon's own words was that he was a better rider and sword than Robb, and that was before he retty non-stop training on the Wall.Is it safe to assume he could hang with Jamie(two hands) and Selmy?He almost certainly couldnt live with Jaime or Selmy. Remember Qhorin could have killed him easily. Hes far above average but not top tier yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 He demolished Iron Emmett who is best of east watch while having a dream. He's pretty up there.Yeah, but that dream made him pretty mad.If he just Hulked out for a minute I wouldn't say that it's an accurate reflection of his skill.Also, I don't remember it saying he was the best of Eastwatch. I thought it said something like Jon and him were evenly matched most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 i think he was quite good not on barristan or jamie (both hands) or the hounds level but still quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Yeah, but that dream made him pretty mad.If he just Hulked out for a minute I wouldn't say that it's an accurate reflection of his skill.That's what i was getting at. He obviously went full assault, damning defense for its sake. While awake he can do better.Also, I don't remember it saying he was the best of Eastwatch.I thought it said something like Jon and him were evenly matched most days.He's said to be pride of Eastwatch. He's either the best or at least one of the elite.I think Jon can take Barristan the Old while Jaime in his prime would still be out of his reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 He's probably quite a bit better than his noble compatriots (beating up smallfolk does not count, usually) but I don't think he's supposed to be in the 1st tier of westerosi swordsmen. He is only 16-17 afterall, and it would be a bit silly if he was, given that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field of Asphodel Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I thought Mance kinda wiped the floor with him, but maybe Jon was underestimating Rattleshirt. I think he's above competent, but no where on the level of Jaime and Selmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 He's probably quite a bit better than his noble compatriots (beating up smallfolk does not count, usually) but I don't think he's supposed to be in the 1st tier of westerosi swordsmen. He is only 16-17 afterall, and it would be a bit silly if he was, given that.Jamie and Loras at 16&17 were probably up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I thought Mance kinda wiped the floor with him, but maybe Jon was underestimating Rattleshirt. I think he's above competent, but no where on the level of Jaime and Selmy.I thought it was kinda stalemate in favor of Mance. Neither was losing ground but Jon was battered and would probably lose due to lack of stamina and attacking power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barristan The Based God Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Jamie and Loras at 16&17 were probably up there. Jaimie yes but, has there ever been any indication as to Loras' skill with a sword? I know he wins tourneys but that means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I thought Mance kinda wiped the floor with him, but maybe Jon was underestimating Rattleshirt. I think he's above competent, but no where on the level of Jaime and Selmy.That's what I thought until my last re-read, Jon realized he was going to lose and couldn't keep fending off the attacks, so he brought them both down to the ground.Mance still won, but it wasn't an ass kicking. He didn't shame himself.The fact that he realized he was boned unless he did something unorthodox like tackle Mance, adds to his battle prowess imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 John is nowhere near Barristons level but hes only what 18 he still has plenty of time to get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 When you read the Mance/Jon fight, it's clear that Jon was having serious trouble with the disproportion between the Rattleshirt appearance and Mance's real strength, etc. I think people overestimate the degree that that fight speaks to Jon's skill. Let's for argument sake say Jaime could wipe the floor with the Hound...but would he if the Hound 'looked' like, say, Jon or Loras? I doubt it.That said, I think Jon is showing potential to one day be maybe considered somewhere in the upper echelons, but there's no way he's there yet, or imo all that close. His skill for his age is impressive, but he'd get killed by Barristan, Jaime 2-hands, Garlan, etc. He's got years of serious training between himself and that type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Okay- Kind of off topic.Well Definitely off topic, but related thought in a way.What about Daario ?Dany clearly thinks he's a billy bad ass, but do we have anything hinted that he's skilled at arms?His dress and ornamentation imo seem to imply that he's not skilled so much as concerned with appearing skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think people are overestimating Barry the Old. His best days are way behind him. In ADwD, without armor, he was meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plume Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think people are overestimating Barry the Old. His best days are way behind him. In ADwD, without armor, he was meat.Maybe people take into account only when he was in his prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think people are overestimating Barry the Old. His best days are way behind him. In ADwD, without armor, he was meat.When I made the topic and mentioned him I was thinking Barristan in his prime.ADwD made me think he knows how to fight better than anyone, but his body isn't a match for the 2 handed Jamie's of the realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What about Daario ?Dany clearly thinks he's a billy bad ass, but do we have anything hinted that he's skilled at arms?Daario must be the best since he doesn't get killed while using swords with woman shaped hilts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Daario must be the best since he doesn't get killed while using swords with woman shaped hilts.But do we know he doesn't just chill at the back of his forces shouting orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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