Jon's skill with a sword

[Arkantos]

It was against Bronze Yohn. He beat the two of them in a row but not 2v1. I saw one poster putting Bronn among the likes of Garlan, Mance, Jaime

Right, so where's this about Ned being a passable swordsman come from?

As for Bronn, he's shrewd when it comes to his opponents and he only seems to fight people he thinks he has a good chance of beating, he'd never put himself up against the likes of Jaime or Garlan so his true skill with a sword can't be measured, he won't ever push himself to the limit.

[Bourne]

I'm not calling you a liar, but I NEVER noticed this

so

Can anyone find this passage? Or remember it enough to paraphrase it?

I'm very curious

Yeah, forgive me, I can't remember the exact quote. I believe it's during the scene when Bronn is fighting Vardis. I think it's something about how Bronn fights reminding him of Jaime. If I find it I'll let you know.

[Night Gathers]

I've wondered before if Rodrik is supposed to be an exceptionally talented swordsman or master of arms.

The way he was telling Joffery and Sandor how it was gonna be and Jon and Robb's above average skill seem to imply that this is the case, but I can't find any actual text that says so.

Well, you don't become Winterfell's master-at-arms for nothing.

[Ariane Martell]

Okay- Kind of off topic.

Well Definitely off topic, but related thought in a way.

What about Daario ?

Dany clearly thinks he's a billy bad ass, but do we have anything hinted that he's skilled at arms?

His dress and ornamentation imo seem to imply that he's not skilled so much as concerned with appearing skilled.

He did won some battles for Dany, so I think he's good with a sword but he doesn't have any discipline and against well trained men from Westeros he would loose, not so easily, but definitively loose. Take Barristan's fight for example, he fought with few of the best from Essos and won easily. He's a man of advanced age, and he still won, ok that it's Barristan we're talking about but that prooves that some of the men that Daario fought were strong but indisciplinate, against a young disciplined man from Westeros like Loras, or someone not so young like Blackfish, I think Daario would loose. He maybe would won against someone like Edmund Tully.

[Pod The Impaler]

Where is all of this Bronn hype coming from?

I just saw 3 or 4 people mention him like he was something special.

He killed Vardis/Varis/WtfEver his name was using dishonorable tactics, while he was using a sword he(Vardis) wasn't comfortable with.

He stabbed the other dudes horse in their little joust.

He seems easily capable of killing most other people. Ser Gregor or Sandor Clegane would probably be a bit more dangerous than him, but you have to be an exceptional fighter to beat either of them.

The thing about Bronn is he does not fight for sport, he fights to kill. People can whine about dirty tactics all they want, but in an actual fight to the death, not a tourney, anything goes. Ser Whatshisface of Stokeworth forgot about that, and assumed Bronn knew nothing about fighting with a lance because he was no knight. What he knew was how to win in real combat.

[Frey Pie]

Jon might get to the top tier. We see he trains very hard. Bronn isnt unbelievable, hes very good. Id put him close to Balon Swann perhaps

[JaegrM]

Well, you don't become Winterfell's master-at-arms for nothing.

Every castle seems to have their own master-at-arms, and it seems like the lord can appoint whoever they choose, pretty much I was asking if he's done anything of note in his life or if he's been talked up by anyone.

Or is it safe to assume he's just a boss?

The thing about Bronn is he does not fight for sport, he fights to kill. People can whine about dirty tactics all they want, but in an actual fight to the death, not a tourney, anything goes. Ser Whatshisface of Stokeworth forgot about that, and assumed Bronn knew nothing about fighting with a lance because he was no knight. What he knew was how to win in real combat.

I understand the 'anything goes' in a fight to the death.

But, say you're in a fight and losing will cost you your life.

You pull out a gun and shoot the other guy in the face. You won, but you're not the better fighter.

That's the kind of fighter I've viewed Bronn as.

I've kind of always thought of Daario as being on par with Bronn, but apparently I have a lower view of Bronn then a lot of others.

In fact his stand off with Sandor in the show irked me quite a bit. Like they were trying to show the two off as equal or near equal in skill.

[Night Gathers]

Every castle seems to have their own master-at-arms, and it seems like the lord can appoint whoever they choose, pretty much I was asking if he's done anything of note in his life or if he's been talked up by anyone.

Or is it safe to assume he's just a boss?

No mentions of previous accomplishments that I'm aware of. But in the end, yes we can assume Rodrik's skilled with a sword.

[Ariane Martell]

Bronn is faster then Selmy (he is not in his prime you know)

Maybe, probably true. But being faster doesn't mean everything Oberyn was faster than Gregor, Brienne was faster than Bites and they both loose.

much more intelligent then Jaime (with hands)...

Not true. From what we saw of Jaime he was a very intelligent fighter, I remember in his fight against Brienne he thought ahead the moves he was gonna make. Plus Jaime had the change to train with some great knights and learn some techniques, Bronn didn't, so I think it's fair to say Jaime is smarter than Bronn.

why everybody compares Jon to this guys that can't perform that well today.

In Jaime's case, people are comparing him when he had both hands not him right now, and in Barristan's case he still a damn good fighter, and after Arthur Dayne he once was the best f Westeros.

They should compare to Bronn , Sandor , Brienne and ofc Ser Gregor Clegane

They do. But even if those aren't as good anymore, it's fair to compare because once they were the best.

[Captain Victarion Greyjoy]

No mentions of previous accomplishments that I'm aware of. But in the end, yes we can assume Rodrik's skilled with a sword.

It really doesn't matter if rodrik is a good swordman it matters that he can teach others how to fight with a sword. In manny sports great trainers that trained champions ,they were not quite good in their youth but they were brilliant at teching others , if you need examples I can give you.

[JaegrM]

Have they made mention of him being an exceptional teacher either?

Jamie and Cersei discussing who should be KL's master-a-arms disagrees with your logic by the way, Jamie told her she'd be hard pressed to find a better teacher than Loras.

I'm not saying you're logic is wrong. It's not.

But it's made clear that in this case they're looking for people with renown to teach arms to people.

[Artos Stark]

Jon is very skilled will only become greater as he matures physically and gets stronger. When it's all said and done I'm certain that he will be one of the top swordsman. Right now I would put him slightly above Loras in terms of skill with a sword.

[Cat of the Commons]

I used to place him as just another guy who's good with a sword, but never thought him anything special.

I just finished another complete re-read though, and he wasn't completely embarassed against Mance, he did hold his own, and they both ended up on the ground.

Mance was pretty much established to be the best of the best, he had to defeat other wildling 'lords' for their loyalty.

I'm sure Mance is good, but I imagine beating the wildling lords would be like beating up all the toughest guys in a biker bar whereas fighting Jamie and Selmy (in their prime) would be more like fighting Bruce Lee. They have a lower level of training and WAY less discipline than the great swordsmen below the wall.

[Captain Victarion Greyjoy]

Have they made mention of him being an exceptional teacher either?

I realy trust the judgement of Ned about swordsmans , as a big house you can't put a loser as a "man at arms". Seems the guys trained by Rodrick pretty owend the kids trained by a the king landing man at arms.

Also Syrio Forell was picked by Ned to train his daughter , so he somehow is good at picking teachers.

[JaegrM]

I'm sure Mance is good, but I imagine beating the wildling lords would be like beating up all the toughest guys in a biker bar whereas fighting Jamie and Selmy (in their prime) would be more like fighting Bruce Lee. They have a lower level of training and WAY less discipline than the great swordsmen below the wall.

Have you seen "Die Hard 2" ?

John McClane is a brawler, a badass fighter without an official style, yet he beats the Colonel who was shown to fight in a disciplined way, an official style.

Nullifying that point however is the fact that Mance was trained at Castle Black.

[LordReaper]

Gregor is just big and strong, i don't think his swordsmanship is actually above average. It doesn't need to be.

Jon received the best training that money can buy, and he has experience. He's humble and willing to learn. If he lives long enough, he's going places - he can be at least as good as Jaime was.

His best competition in his own "weight/age group" right now would be Loras, and i personally think he can take him.

[JaegrM]

I realy trust the judgement of Ned about swordsmans , as a big house you can't put a loser as a "man at arms". Seems the guys trained by Rodrick pretty owend the kids trained by a the king landing man at arms.

Also Syrio Forell was picked by Ned to train his daughter , so he somehow is good at picking teachers.

In Ned's POV he's kind of "He had a good recommendation...but standing on one toe...Wtf?" regarding Syrio's training and tries to talk Arya into replacing him.

So that's a bad argument.

[Bushido]

One can't take the Mance fight as an example - you can't fight properly if your perception is distorted in any way.

[JaegrM]

One can't take the Mance fight as an example - you can't fight properly if your perception is distorted in any way.

That just makes Jon look better then.

On top of the fact that he'd already been sparring and wasn't completely fresh like Mance was.

He still held his own against the king of badasses from north of the wall.

I think we may all be underestimating Jon's skills.

It's written so Jon could be anywhere from upper mid tier to mid high tier

[Arya Targaryen]

Jon is above average, I think. I would be really pissed if he turns out to be some super-amazing swordsman. He needs to be pretty good, obviously, but in his case leadership abilities/strategy-making/understanding politics are far more important than swordmanship.

That being said, I really hope he manages to kick Mance's ass in a fair fight. And he kicks some other badguys' asses too. It would make me feel much better.