Jon's skill with a sword

[Captain Victarion Greyjoy]

Bronn is faster then Selmy (he is not in his prime you know) , much more intelligent then Jaime (with hands)...why everybody compares Jon to this guys that can't perform that well today. They should compare to Bronn , Sandor , Brienne and ofc Ser Gregor Clegane

[James Arryn]

Bronn is faster then Selmy (he is not in his prime you know) , much more intelligent then Jaime (with hands)...why everybody compares Jon to this guys that can't perform that well today. They should compare to Bronn , Sandor , Brienne and ofc Ser Gregor Clegane

Bron is a a smarter swordsman than Jaime? Why?

I think they're both pretty smart, but Jaime has dedicated more of his life to it than Bron, and was considered the best in Westeros.

[Pod The Impaler]

I'd put him up there with Robb or Eddard, so probably a very good swordsman. Maybe not of legendary reknown, but probably a damn tough fighter by now.

I shudder to think how good Arya would become if she did nothing but train. The kind of intense focus she would apply to it, plus her natural talent and ferocity, would make her into one of the true elite, if she wanted to be.

[LordBloodraven]

Loras' swordmanship is worse than Garlan but he swiftly takes out two of Rainbow Guards in grief. Stalemate probably.

Hmm, I think Robar Royce and the other Rainbow Guard weren't really fighting but more trying to explain what happened. So I believe that fight wasn't fair

[Chaircat Meow]

Jamie and Loras at 16&17 were probably up there.

Yea, but I think they are both supposed to be totally exceptional. And actually, even at 16-17, Jaime and Loras wouldn't have been near to being the best swordsmen in the realm. Jaime came into his own later, he was just very very impressive for his age. Arthur Dayne getting bumped off helped too.

[Daemon Dagoghlor]

Jaimie yes but, has there ever been any indication as to Loras' skill with a sword? I know he wins tourneys but that means nothing.

Loras killed both Emmon Cuy and Robar Royce after Renly's death. It's possible he took them by surprise, but according to Randyll Tarly Robar was an exceptionally skilled fighter. Loras isn't as good as his brother Garlan, but Garlan could probably hold his own against anybody in the realm.

I think Jon is way above average, but I still don't think he'd be in the top tier. He might be better than Ned or Robb who were competent fighters but definitely not the stuff of legend. Two-handed Jaime, Barristan, Brienne or either of the Tyrell brothers or the Cleganes would probably make short work of him.

[Bourne]

He's very good but is not on the level of the prodigies (Jaime, Barristan), either in terms of natural skill or peak ability. As for current living fighters, he wouldn't stand a chance against Garlan or Bronn and we slready saw what Mance did to him. He could end up being one of the top 100 in Westeros, but he'll never approach the 20.

[Budj]

Jon with Longclaw is probably better than Loras and better than Brienne. I put him above Brienne because Brienne used "underhanded" combat to best Loras in their fight and she could barely hold her own against a chained up Jaime (impressive task still).....she also got her ass beat by Biter which really takes her down a peg in my book.

I'd also say that a re-match with Mance where Jon is not underestimating him (rattleshirt glamor) and has Longclaw that we may have a different outcome. I say this because I believe Jon has a steep learning curve and his first bout with Mance probably taught him a lot. He now knows that Mance is a highly aggressive fighter focusing on Offense rather than Defense and has tremendous stamina which would force Jon to go fast and furious - because he can't keep up in the long haul with him.

Jaime with two hands then Jon would definitely lose.

I think Barry the old vs Jon with Longclaw is a pretty good skill level match.

Jon isn't quite up to par with Sandor and Bronn, but I think he is heading there.

All-in-all in the heat of battle I think Jon has a chance to beat anyone (much different than 1 v 1 combat / duel situations). I don't hold the Qhorin Halfhand fight against him because he really didn't have his heart in it - not to say he would have won if Qhorin didn't already plan on dying, but I think it would have been much less embarrassing for him...

[Field of Asphodel]

I thought it was kinda stalemate in favor of Mance. Neither was losing ground but Jon was battered and would probably lose due to lack of stamina and attacking power.

That's what I thought until my last re-read, Jon realized he was going to lose and couldn't keep fending off the attacks, so he brought them both down to the ground.

Mance still won, but it wasn't an ass kicking. He didn't shame himself.

The fact that he realized he was boned unless he did something unorthodox like tackle Mance, adds to his battle prowess imo.

I think Mance won. After looking over the passage again, I'd say in terms of strength, power, and endurance Mance has the edge. Also, speed as Mance fights with a greatsword and Jon with a longsword, and Jon thinks he[Jon] should have been landing two blows for every one of Mance's, when in fact he was barely hanging on. But Jon does hang on, and he doesn't have Mance's reach, so he was forced into a defensive position more often than I think he would've been otherwise. Jon brought Rattleshirt to the ground, but Mance ended up on top with Jon's head between his hands. At that point, Jon lost. Mance could've easily smashed Jon's head into the ground until he died.

[Tagganaro]

Jon's a better sword than Robb. He might have been bragging, but he says as much in AGOT and I believe him.

I'd put Jon at the lower part of the top tier in what we've seen in Westeros, especially with Longclaw in tow. He's by far one of the most experienced, and although he probably got beat by both, Qhorin and Mance both seem to be beasts with their swords. Qhorin is legendary in the NW, and Mance has to be freaking amazing to be King beyond the Wall, as we saw in he and John's practice yard duel.

Jon is still young (and if alive) will grow into an even better swordsman. He beat the crap out of Iron Emmett, and is capable of taking on 3 of the NW's best recruits at the same time (albeit with some trickery/cheapness involved).

I'd put Jon very near to the top 10 we've seen, probably very close to Brienne or someone like that. Not quite on Jaime/Barristan in prime, and probably not quite on Loras/Garlan and Bronze Yohn, but that next level below them.

[LordBloodraven]

Is Bronn an exceptional swordsman? Unorthodox yes but exceptional? Don't think so. Against Jon, it wouldn't be so evident

[JaegrM]

Where is all of this Bronn hype coming from?

I just saw 3 or 4 people mention him like he was something special.

He killed Vardis/Varis/WtfEver his name was using dishonorable tactics, while he was using a sword he(Vardis) wasn't comfortable with.

He stabbed the other dudes horse in their little joust.

Is it the show "Game of Thrones" making him seem like a more skilled fighter to people? Or did I miss something?

I thought the word to describe Ned's skill with a sword was "passable"...

It may have been "competent", but I could have sworn it was "passable"

[Night Gathers]

Well, it's not on topic but Bronn is a good fighter.

Catelyn thought to herself that it wasn't a coincidence that Bronn survived up in the mountains while so many other men died.

As for Jon, I'd say he's above average when it comes to sword fighting. He was trained to use a sword since he was only a boy, and by Ser Rodrik as well. And since he became Lord Commander he spends most his days in the yard training.

[Captain Victarion Greyjoy]

Where is all of this Bronn hype coming from?

Bronn has speed and he is skilled , he was rewarded with a title after blackwatter. You don't give a title to a sellsword who didn't prove himself.without his help cat and tyron would be long gone , he saved tyron ass in numeorus occasions.

You also have to keep in mind that he achieved ahat he achieved as a poor person , he did not have weaponmasters like rodrik or syrio or whoever you want . Knights like loras received good training cus their fammilys were rich.

[Arkantos]

When was Ned's skill with a sword ever mentioned?

I think I remember that he and Rodrik got 2v1'd by someone, but that person was a great swordsman.

[LordBloodraven]

When was Ned's skill with a sword ever mentioned?

I think I remember that he and Rodrik got 2v1'd by someone, but that person was a great swordsman.

It was against Bronze Yohn. He beat the two of them in a row but not 2v1. I saw one poster putting Bronn among the likes of Garlan, Mance, Jaime

[JaegrM]

Well, it's not on topic but Bronn is a good fighter.

Catelyn thought to herself that it wasn't a coincidence that Bronn survived up in the mountains while so many other men died.

As for Jon, I'd say he's above average when it comes to sword fighting. He was trained to use a sword since he was only a boy, and by Ser Rodrik as well. And since he became Lord Commander he spends most his days in the yard training.

I've wondered before if Rodrik is supposed to be an exceptionally talented swordsman or master of arms.

The way he was telling Joffery and Sandor how it was gonna be and Jon and Robb's above average skill seem to imply that this is the case, but I can't find any actual text that says so.

And yes Cat said Bronn "fought furiously" or "with a fury" and it wasn't coincidence.

But shortly after that she gets told she's a women and doesn't know what she's talking about, and she kind of concedes the point.

[Bourne]

Where is all of this Bronn hype coming from?

I just saw 3 or 4 people mention him like he was something special.

He killed Vardis/Varis/WtfEver his name was using dishonorable tactics, while he was using a sword he(Vardis) wasn't comfortable with.

He stabbed the other dudes horse in their little joust.

Is it the show "Game of Thrones" making him seem like a more skilled fighter to people? Or did I miss something?

I thought the word to describe Ned's skill with a sword was "passable"...

It may have been "competent", but I could have sworn it was "passable"

Pretty sure it was competent.

And as to Bronn, I don't believe that he's a prodigy. However, he's one of the few characters we've seen actually studying swordplay. He seems to be, if not the most physically gifted, at least one of the smartest. You have to be pretty confident in your abilities to find recruits by testing them to see if they can kill you. And although the Kingsguard isn't what it used to be, the fact that they fear Bronn is a pretty good indicator of how good he is.

Furthermore, although everybody says killing Vardis proves nothing, the nobles of the Vale certainly didn't think Bronn had a chance. Also, although I can't remember the exact quote, Tyrion reflects on how Bronns ability is comparable to Jaime's. That's a pretty big compliment.

So no, I don't think Bronn is on Jaime or Barristan's level, but he's certainly well above Jon's at the current time. And I highly doubt Jon will ever reach it.

[JaegrM]

Also, although I can't remember the exact quote, Tyrion reflects on how Bronns ability is comparable to Jaime's. That's a pretty big compliment.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I NEVER noticed this

so

Can anyone find this passage? Or remember it enough to paraphrase it?

I'm very curious

[The Fallen]

` Jon is not top-tier. Over the span of the novels the only top-tier fighters have been Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Jaime and Sandor. I guess you can add Gregor simply because he's too strong for most people, not necessarily skill.

Jon is above-average, probably on par with 50 other swordsman in the realm. He's also young and as he gets older he'll be getting stronger and faster and can move up into the second-tier group of his peers.

But he'll never get to the level of those first-tier guys I mentioned, I don't think.