Was Ned wrong in beheading Gared (the NW deserter)

[LordBloodraven]

Yeah, Ned was dumb again. It's a shame he didn't take the time to find out about the Others on the loose.

I mean, if he had, well. things could have been done. Given enough warning maybe he'd have been able to establish some sort of military presence in the North to combat the Others....they'd need some kind of serious structure to help, though....that's a lot of territory. And given the task, you'd probably need to get men who were super commited in the face of giants and Others and such. Probably need to specifically establish some kind of lifetime oath whereby those sent to hold this theoretical structure against the monsters coming down would have to stay there no matter what. Probably have to treat desertion like most military forces have when at war: a capital offense. Otherwise why would they stay to face super-scary things?

Oh, well, Ned being dumb prevents anyone from doing all that. Stupid go-by-the-book mentality.

Very dumb indeed. A deserter is caught, talk about the Others and White Walkers in a very unintelligible way: time to establish war plans pronto out of that

[James Arryn]

Very dumb indeed. A deserter is caught, talk about the Others and White Walkers in a very unintelligible way: time to establish war plans pronto out of that

I'm not sure, but I think you missed my point.

[olavtheking]

Het got past the wall which I believe means he conciously and deliberately avoided his brothers there, if he had just reported to the lord commander the other rangings to find them would not have been necessary and a lot of evil could have been prevented. He died according to the law and he was not innocent.

(comparing his executions to Ned's is ridiculous, Ned was an honourable man and thats what got him killed)

[LordBloodraven]

I'm not sure, but I think you missed my point.

I fear so too :blushing:

[Melpomene]

Well, if anything, I guess the question should be targeted on whether the NW did wrong in beheading the guy. Afterall, the man was a member of their men, following their laws, and was dubbed as a deserter by them. Ned, mainly in outsider in retrospect, is just following what was requested as warden under that said law and mutual agreement. And even if Ned did completely believe the guy he probably didn't have the absolute authority to refuse the execution - he might have had to butt a lot of heads with the NW, causing a lot of unnecessary friction on something that would appear incredibly uncertain.

While the guy was worth having some sympathy, he still made a drastic choice in taking off completely instead of going to his own to warn others or update to a commander. And, I think it would have been a very tricky situation for Ned...I mean, The Others have been gone for thousands of years that world. For the guy to blurt out that he saw them would be like someone telling us that they saw dinosaurs alive and well and had killed their comrades. Anyone would feel incredibly conflicted at that kind of statement, especially for a person on deathrow.

[Lady Flandrensis]

No, Ned wasn't wrong. That's what the code of law is between the NW and the lords of Westeros. Gared, as others have said, should've gone to LC Mormont and told him what happened. Not doing that set things up for all the dominoes to fall as they did.

[Lord Flashheart]

When was Ned ever wrong? Heresy!

[Lady Flandrensis]

When was Ned ever wrong? Heresy!

Exactly!

[Ragnorak]

I had forgotten Ned brought up the NW with Robert in the crypts

“You must have wondered why I finally came north to Winterfell, after so long.”

Ned had his suspicions, but he did not give them voice. “For the joy of my company, surely,” he said lightly. “And there is the Wall. You need to see it, Your Grace, to walk along its battlements and talk to those who man it. The Night’s Watch is a shadow of what it once was. Benjen says—”

[FanTasy]

I think Ned did what was expected. I don't have the quote but I remember there are more mentionings of heads of deserters being returned when deserters were found south of the wall.

We know from what Mormont tells Jon Tyrion in AGOT that Ned had not only delivered the head to Mormont but that he also informed him of what Gared told in the interrogation before he was killed, that his brothers were killed by white walkers.

ETA I'm a bit in doubt now if this is a correct memory, of Mormont telling Jon about the returned head. I looked for the exact quote and can';t find it in the Jon chapters. That the head was returned by Eddard and with information, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere. Maybe it was in one of Eddard's chapters. I'll look for it and be back.

Back. Mormont told Tyrion, not Jon, about Gared's head. I could not find that something about Gareds last words were communicated though. Maybe a false memory from the TV Show :bang:

[Lord of Cheese]

I think Ned was right to remove Gared's head.

Like others mentioned before, WW are just tales at that point in time... and still are for everyone not at the Wall. Even if Ned could see that Gared was not lying, by whatever lie detection clues Ned has, he would have to have dismissed that acknowledgement just by sheer craziness of the story.

[FanTasy]

Hmm ... 'm a wee frustrated because I can't find that line I think there must be, about Ned not only sending Gared's head to Mormont but also telling him about what Gared told him. The first part is in Tyrion's chapters in AGOT, the latter I can't find. Someone with an e-book perhaps? Or is it is indeed a flawed memory from the TV Show?

[Grail King]

He was not in the wrong. Gared broke his oath, and the punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. There is no "but it's okay for me to desert if I run into the Others" clause in the Night's Watch oath. And, as I recall, Ned did try to question Gared, but he was so shaken that he couldn't fully articulate what he had seen. Also, I would think that Ned would discuss the matter with Benjen while he was in Winterfell (I know such a conversation took place in the TV show, but I don't recall it being noted in the books).

Except Ned would not know Benjen be at Winterfell because all this happened before Ned learned of Jon Arryns death, but he did get word from Benjen prior about lost rangers, wildings etc and with the apperence of Direwolf pups should have given more thought on what Gared mentioned instead of calling it madness.

[Arkantos]

Except Ned would not know Benjen be at Winterfell because all this happened before Ned learned of Jon Arryns death, but he did get word from Benjen prior about lost rangers, wildings etc and with the apperence of Direwolf pups should have given more thought on what Gared mentioned instead of calling it madness.

Gared was mad, Ned 'couldn't reach him', he was probably rambling. Lost rangers could easily just be the result of wildings just being a bit more aggresive than usual and the quality of rangers has somewhat dropped in recent years anyway, due to less nobles and more criminals. His madness could be attributed to running into Dogshead or Rattleshirt. If anything, Ned could've thought that there was a new king-beyond-the-wall gaining power, there was no reason to worry about the Others as of yet.

[TimJames]

Spawned from this post in this threadWas Ned wrong in beheading Gared? The man's duty was to inform his superiors at The Wall of "The Others", not flee south. So was Ned really wrong? I mean we, as readers, knows Gared was telling the truth - but why would Ned, who has probably heard similar (and worse) from any number of NW deserters through the years?

That depends what you mean.

If you meant "Was Ned within legal rights to execute Gared?", than the answer is yes. As far as Ned knew, Gared broke a law that was punishable by death. Ned wouldn't have executed him if he felt Gared didn't deserve to die (he said this is why he performs his own executions, to avoid miscarriages of justice). Although one could argue that as a deserter, Gared should have been sent to The Wall in chains so The Lord Commander can execute him if he wants to.

If you meant "Did Gared deserve to die?", than there is some room for debate. Especially concerning deserters in general.

First we need to understand why someone would desert from the Nights Watch. It is not an uncommon fact that the Nights Watch recruits its followers from prison cells and dungeons. If a prisoner was in the dungeon for a crime he didn't commit (Dareon) or for breaking a law which is frankly unjust (Will), than he might feel that his being sent to the Wall is unfair and that his oath was made at sword point (it is mentioned that oaths made at sword point are null and void in the eyes of the Gods). So if someone in these or similar circumstances decides he doesn't want to die frozen and childless, he'll desert.

Some would of course commit crimes heinous crimes like rape or murder because they'll be killed no matter what, but it is foolish to assume all would. Some would just attempt to hide out until they can reach white harbor and jump the next boat to Essos.

[Lord Damian]

He deserted his post, it was not like he was coming to Winterfell to warn the Starks of what he saw. He was a deserter and seemed glad to die in the end. Relieved it seems.