The Perfect Knight

[Mad Madam Mim]

The genral consensus seems to be that ser Robert Strong is zombie Gregor, however, another theory being wafted around is that Robert Strong is a frankenpuzzle made up of different body parts which have been coveted from people who have recently popped their clogs and put together by Qyborn to create a super knight (cue superman music).

So this got me thinking (whilst bored at work)- if it was possible to window shop the perfect knight by using different bits and bobs from various characters, what would the “perfect” knight look like?

My attempt is as follows:

1) The mountains legs- A knight should be tall and to say Gregor is tall is a wee bit of an understatement so it stands to reason that Gregor’s legs must be up to his armpits. I was going to say Ayra's feet aswell because she is pretty nippy but then realised the feet of a little girl would look a tad strange on legs of an 8 foot man and thought he might topple over.

2) Ned’s crotch: Ned appears to be the only male character that does not do his thinking through his manly bits and is the only one capable of keeping it in his pants. Magical willy…I think so!

3) Robert’s arms: If the guy can wave around a hammer then he must have pretty impressive guns.

4) Loras’ head: to make him prettyful

5) Rhaegar's hair: again-pretty and i want to play with it

6) Renley’s dress sense: the bitch knows how to work it

7) Jaime’s sex appeal: every knight should have a groupy of ladies swooning after him

8) Sandor’s horse: simply because he is awesome!

[FaSome]

The "perfect knight" is dead...

Ser Arthur Dayne was his name.

[The Lord's Kiss]

His name is Sandor Clegane.

[redriver]

Are you Qyburns diabolical assistant?Ned's loins?

Leave Ned's bollocks well alone.you diabolical assistant you!

[Queen Cersei I]

The "perfect knight" is dead...

Ser Arthur Dayne was his name.

The perfect knight is very much alive, and SHE is currently somewhere off in the woods with Jaime.

Why others do NOT live up to the "perfect knight" ideal:

--Arthur Dayne, Whent, The White Bull, and the rest of the old school kingsguard:

These men were worshipped, loved, and acclaimed everywhere for their honor. And yet, they all stood there and listened to their mistress and queen being raped and brutalized, doing nothing to intervene. They broke the first, and arguably most important vow of knighthood, and failed to sgtand up for the weak and helpless. To justify themselves, they weakly blathered about "our vow", and how apparently physically preventing their king from raping and abusing innocent people would go against what is right. I say that they could have easily prevented this and other atrocities, and that the insanity of Aerys created a special circumstance. They easily could have physically restrained him to prevent him from raping and abusing innocent people.. They simply weren't willing to risk their life or reputation to do so.

Many maintain they're heroes; I would call them cowards.

--Baristan Selmy. He did indeed fight bravely for his masters. He then pledged aliegiance to the man who had not only killed his previous masters, but had murdered innocent children, the true heirs to the throne. He is portrayed sympathetically, and has done some brave and heroic things. And does feel guilty about his deeds. But I'd say morally, he is about as grey as jaime lannister. Sure, he's fell well within the Wesaterosi concept of honor. But I say morally, he's cut quite a few corners, often finding that "Morally" he feels compelled to...well, cut corners to keep his own position.

Many find him sympathetic and accept his explanations for the series of flip flops he's committed. I personally say I still find him far, far short of the Westerosi concept of knightly ideals.

--Sandor Clegane. He has many fans, and I agree that he is a fascinating character. But morally, he does not even belong in the same sentence as Brienne.

--Loras Tyrell. Killed a number of innocent men in the heat of anger, rather than being fair and just. Also cuts corners for fun and profit, such as having a mare compete against Gregor, knowing well the consequences. A harmless little trick, to be sure, but one that Brienne of Tarth would never commit, it's worth noting.

Brienne has neither Loras's head, nor Rhaegar's hair, nor Jaime's "sex appeal", nor Sandor's horse, nor, (gods be good) Ned's crotch. But she is the only "great knight" in Westeros worthY of the name.

[Field of Asphodel]

The genral consensus seems to be that ser Robert Strong is zombie Gregor, however, another theory being wafted around is that Robert Strong is a frankenpuzzle made up of different body parts which have been coveted from people who have recently popped their clogs and put together by Qyborn to create a super knight (cue superman music).

So this got me thinking (whilst bored at work)- if it was possible to window shop the perfect knight by using different bits and bobs from various characters, what would the “perfect” knight look like?

My attempt is as follows:

1) The mountains legs- A knight should be tall and to say Gregor is tall is a wee bit of an understatement so it stands to reason that Gregor’s legs must be up to his armpits. I was going to say Ayra's feet aswell because she is pretty nippy but then realised the feet of a little girl would look a tad strange on legs of an 8 foot man and thought he might topple over.

2) Ned’s crotch: Ned appears to be the only male character that does not do his thinking through his manly bits and is the only one capable of keeping it in his pants. Magical willy…I think so!

3) Robert’s arms: If the guy can wave around a hammer then he must have pretty impressive guns.

4) Loras’ head: to make him prettyful

5) Rhaegar's hair: again-pretty and i want to play with it

6) Renley’s dress sense: the bitch knows how to work it

7) Jaime’s sex appeal: every knight should have a groupy of ladies swooning after him

8) Sandor’s horse: simply because he is awesome!

:lmao:

Just everything.

[Blisscraft]

Queen Cersei I - You rock! And I unreservedly agree that the truest most perfect gentle Knight in Westeros is Brienne.

[Hyperion94]

Add in the Religion/Rhollor powers of Thoros of Myr and/or Berric Dondarrion. THEY CAN LIGHT THEIR SWORDS ON FIRE!!!!!!!

[Foxhound]

How could any of the Kingsguard have "easily" prevented Aerys' actions? Physical restraining him is an temporary fix and ultimately pointless. They would have been killed and Aerys would again be free to whatever he wanted. Yes, such a gesture would have been better than Barristan's "sit back and do nothing" plan. But the only permanent solution would either be Jaime's, or what Dayne and Whent were probably doing: conspiring with Rhaegar to remove Aerys.

[Old-Growth]

Besides Ser/My Lady Brienne, there is also her putative ancestor Ser Duncan the Tall. (We have not met any of the more legendary ones such as the Dragonknight, so perhaps we should leave them out of the discussion.) I do like the idea that Sansa's true knight will turn out to be Brienne, and for that matter, Sansa may like the idea as well. (Note that Sandor rejects the code of chivalry, so he cannot be Sansa's true knight even tho', his protestations not withstanding, he does sometimes act the part.)

[Fire Eater]

@Queen Cersei I

Robert didn't kill children that was Tywin's work.

Perfect knights:

Ser Arthur Dayne

Ser Duncan the Tall and his possible descendant Brienne

Prince Baelor Breakspear

[Queen Cersei I]

@Queen Cersei I

Robert didn't kill children that was Tywin's work.

He approved of it afterwards, rewarded Tywin for it, and, according to Tywin, was going to off the kids regardless, and was palpably relieved when he came upon the bodies of the dead children. Tywin: "Stupid as he was, he knew the children must die, but he saw himself as a hero. And heroes don't kill children."

I'll accept the argument that Robert technically "had nothing to do" with the Targ children's death, despite clealry approving of it and later rewarding their murderer.

But Robert undeniably later ordered the barely 14 year old Danerys and her unborn child murdered. Robert has children murdered, no question about it.

[WitchyBex]

I think there was a thread hanging around earlier tonight about irony in GRRMs writing. I think the great irony is the person that best exemplifies knightly ideals will never be acknowledged by most as anything more than a 'swordswench'. And that is the Maid of Tarth.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

-Cersei's body

-Ilyn Payne's vocality

-The submissive nature of the Captain's Daughter

-Chataya's professional skills and experience

-Sweet's private parts

[Foxhound]

I think there was a thread hanging around earlier tonight about irony in GRRMs writing. I think the great irony is the person that best exemplifies knightly ideals will never be acknowledged by most as anything more than a 'swordswench'. And that is the Maid of Tarth.

The thing about Brienne though is that she's still in the middle of what's essentially a trial by fire that's testing her knightly qualities. In Feast she faced mainly physical challenges-she had to prove her willingness to kill, and her willingness to die. When we finally see the conclusion to the UnCat/Jaime plot, I think she's going to face a much more moral based dilemma. She's going to have to makes some hard decisions to resolve the situation. Now I think she'll make the right choices, but until that happens she has not been fully tested.

[FaSome]

The perfect knight is very much alive, and SHE is currently somewhere off in the woods with Jaime.

Why others do NOT live up to the "perfect knight" ideal:

--Arthur Dayne, Whent, The White Bull, and the rest of the old school kingsguard:

These men were worshipped, loved, and acclaimed everywhere for their honor. And yet, they all stood there and listened to their mistress and queen being raped and brutalized, doing nothing to intervene. They broke the first, and arguably most important vow of knighthood, and failed to sgtand up for the weak and helpless. To justify themselves, they weakly blathered about "our vow", and how apparently physically preventing their king from raping and abusing innocent people would go against what is right. I say that they could have easily prevented this and other atrocities, and that the insanity of Aerys created a special circumstance. They easily could have physically restrained him to prevent him from raping and abusing innocent people.. They simply weren't willing to risk their life or reputation to do so.

Many maintain they're heroes; I would call them cowards.

--Baristan Selmy. He did indeed fight bravely for his masters. He then pledged aliegiance to the man who had not only killed his previous masters, but had murdered innocent children, the true heirs to the throne. He is portrayed sympathetically, and has done some brave and heroic things. And does feel guilty about his deeds. But I'd say morally, he is about as grey as jaime lannister. Sure, he's fell well within the Wesaterosi concept of honor. But I say morally, he's cut quite a few corners, often finding that "Morally" he feels compelled to...well, cut corners to keep his own position.

Many find him sympathetic and accept his explanations for the series of flip flops he's committed. I personally say I still find him far, far short of the Westerosi concept of knightly ideals.

--Sandor Clegane. He has many fans, and I agree that he is a fascinating character. But morally, he does not even belong in the same sentence as Brienne.

--Loras Tyrell. Killed a number of innocent men in the heat of anger, rather than being fair and just. Also cuts corners for fun and profit, such as having a mare compete against Gregor, knowing well the consequences. A harmless little trick, to be sure, but one that Brienne of Tarth would never commit, it's worth noting.

Brienne has neither Loras's head, nor Rhaegar's hair, nor Jaime's "sex appeal", nor Sandor's horse, nor, (gods be good) Ned's crotch. But she is the only "great knight" in Westeros worthY of the name.

From a morals standpoint I agree with you 100%, Brienne has some of the best morals in the series. The term knight however has nothing to do with morals. In fact its definition: Noun(in the Middle Ages) A tenant giving military service as a mounted man-at-arms to a fuedal landholder had nothing to do with morals. If Brienne did as you say and stopped Aerys, well that would indeed make her a terrible knight because she cannot obey orders.

Then there is the fact that Brienne is NOT a knight nor was she a page or squire, therefore she may indeed have the best morals in westeros, but she is NOT the "perfect knight" because she is not a knight at all. Thus would be why she is called LADY Brienne of Tarth.

Back to Dayne. While he did indeed standby and do nothing, his duty was to OBEY. Jaime did the morally right thing and what did that get him? the nickname kingslayer? Everyone of Aerys kingsguard did their duty besides Jaime(who choose morals) and everyone of them are looked at as better "knights" than him. I choose Dayne as the perfect knight because he could obey, second to none in skill, and theres never anything negative mentioned of his character by anyone.

[Budj]

Dunk and Baelor Breakspear...in the current story everyone cops out at some point.

[WitchyBex]

@FaSome and Foxhound

I agree with definition of knight...someone swears military service to a feudal lord. So I guess that the disconnect is between what is a knight and what are knightly ideals? In the medieval times, knights swore vows before the Catholic Church. In Westeros, they swear oaths to The Seven.

Just curious, but do we have an example of the words that the Westeros knights swear to? I know we have the words of the Nights Watch. Knightly ideals are known in Westeros....we have characters comment as to what they believe represents a true knight (Sansa, Brienne, Catelyn, Jaime). We know that those that who swear service are not always knights (Ned and Sandor come to mind).

[Foxhound]

We get a section of the knightly vows from "The Mystery Knight": “In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women."

And knighthood is more than just a military role. The concept of chivalry is a core component of knighthood, and chivalry is a broader code beyond purely military behavior.

[WitchyBex]

But no reference to 'obey'?

Perhaps that a part of the Kingsguard vows that we also don't really have a reference for, just the actions of the chosen elite?