ASOIAF's worst father?

[DreamSongs]

@Jaime's Wench...like a prior poster, I tend to give Jaime a free pass on the 'Worst Father' award. Any involvement with Joff, Myrcella and Tommen was discouraged by Cersei from the day Joff was born. Essentially he was allowed to be a sperm donor and mother's brother. Imagine having to be a KG and stand there watching your children call someone else father and not react. For years. I think that's a big part of his adolescent-like behavior at times. To his credit, he at least wonders if Joff would have been different if he had been more involved and decides that he will be more involved with Tommen.

See, that was my point! :(

I said Roose pages back.

Gah, sympathy comes as a velvet glove, reality the blade beneath, and all is as it was meant to be from the cruelest dawn of man, and all that.

I was just providing my mental process in post. I was going to pick Tarly until I started writing it down.

Meh, with these types of threads people tend to just read the OP then post their own 2 cents. That's why we have several people above saying "is no one gonna say Roose?!?!" :bang:

Exactly.

[Eating My Wings]

Is this a serious question? Tywin. Killed by his own son, while his other children did not shed a single tear after learning about their father's death.

[Talvivaara]

Craster, I would say...

Also Tywin, he uses his kids to forward his ambitions and doesn't really care what they think. And what he did to Tysha...

[Khal Cherian]

The hate is deserved, because Tarly has no clue what he's doing.

He pretty much tried to round peg Sam into a square hole, got increasingly frustrated and cruel when his lamentable parenting style failed, and then gave up half way through. His problem was that Sam wasn't showing aptitude at arms, and instead of trying to work around the problem, he got really weird and cruel with it, rather than just accept that not everybody will be a great fighter, and that to be a good leader or even a good general, you don't need to be a medieval Jason Statham.

There are lots of different ways to raise children, but torturing them, humiliating them, and threatening to kill and drown them are not good ones. In fact, these things are why Sam is so screwed up. Rather than toughen him up, Tarly screwed him up.

I disagree, the simple fact is Sam refused to even try to learn, if you actually practice something every day, regardless of how inept you are to start with you will become at least competent at it. If you worked out the events on a timeline they would probly increase in harshness as Sam gets older and randyll gets more frustrated as he runs out of ideas to fix sam, it's not like they had child psychologists he could turn to so he could find out the best way to fix Sam, he only had what his parents did and what other lords did.

Like when he tried to drown him, or threatened to kill him on a hunt? How, praytell, would those things help?

I don't think it would have actually been pleased to do it but it I think he wanted to make sure Sam would be too scared to defie him and try to desert the nw and getting his head chopped off.

Teaching someone to swim by throwing them into deep water and watching them drown is not an effective way to teach someone to swim. At all.

This actually worked for me, I wasnt thrown tho I jumped in because I thought it was shallow, regardless, I learnt pretty sharpish!

But this proves what a terrible parent Randyll Tarly is, because it demonstrates the problem isn't Sam, but the methods of the person who has been teaching him.

But the problem is Sam, he is such a drip, Randyll didn't make him get seasick or make him scared of heights and almost everything else probably, these are issues Sam had always before randyll tried to fix them, admittedly uneffectively but he still tried everything possible trying to help his son, a lot more than alot of fathers do. The worst thing he did IMHO was ignore Sam for years and give up on him, but it was ultimately sams unwillingness to try that led to this.

Randyll tarly is the Eddard stark of the south. He is tough but fair lord who actually serves justice and knows how harsh life is, he has a great military mind too. He is not a psychopath, he dealt fair justice when we meet him in briennes chapter and put a stop to the risk of her getting raped even tho he didnt agree with he lifestyle.

I repeat, Randyll Tarly is awesome! <3 <3

[Pellaeon]

Am I the only one who added Robert?

[danm_999]

But the problem is Sam, he is such a drip, Randyll didn't make him get seasick or make him scared of heights and almost everything else probably, these are issues Sam had always before randyll

It's very common to get seasick the first time you're on a boat if you're not used to it. It's not something, as a father, you should freak out about and then let it eventually lead you to conclude you need to murder your son over. I question honestly, how much these problems even matter in assessing Sam to act as heir, given Horn Hill is landlocked, and not high up like the Eyrie.

So when Sam turns into a PTSD wreck, I'm tempted to say it's in large part because his father has systematically been torturing and trying to kill him. They make him sleep in chainmail to make him a better fighter for goodness sakes. The people training him are first class dumb dumbs.

[Danelle]

Robert's bad parenting is because of Cersei.

While Cersei is defiantely not a good mother, I think that Robert's relationship to his children was similar to his reign. Robert loved sleeping around and getting women pregnant but hated what came afterwards the responsibilities. He loved fighting and winning the Throne but hated the responsibilities and duties of a King. He did love his kids though. All 19 of them, and I am including Cersei's kids cause Robert died thinking that he was the father.

[Khal Cherian]

It's very common to get seasick the first time you're on a boat if you're not used to it. It's not something, as a father, you should freak out about and then let it eventually lead you to conclude you need to murder your son over. I question honestly, how much these problems even matter in assessing Sam to act as heir, given Horn Hill is landlocked, and not high up like the eyrie.

Then when they arrived at the redwynes he got bullied by 2 ugly (according to Sansa) ginger kids, talk about lowest of the low, how much is poor randyll supposed to take??

[danm_999]

Then when they arrived at the redwynes he got bullied by 2 ugly (according to Sansa) ginger kids, talk about lowest of the low, how much is poor randyll supposed to take??

He got bullied by two older boys so Tarly's only recourse is death or exile? I'll say it again, Randyll Tarly is a psychopath who shouldn't be let near children because he has no clue what he's doing.

Also, the ginger stigma doesn't appear to exist in Westeros.

[Little Wing]

Noboy reads my posts.

I can't say I blame them.

:(

Edit: I do secretly blame them, tbh.

Har!

Hades take not having the Like button! *scowls*

[Lady Pounce of Whiskerrun]

Thoughts on Rhaegar Targaryen? We don't have all the details, but it seems like things could have gone very differently for his children by Elia if he had stuck around.

We really don't know how kind/nurturing/etc. he was as a father prior to Robert's Rebellion, but I wonder about the extent to which he viewed reproducing simply as a way to fulfill a prophecy.

Based on the evidence, I don't think he's the WORST father, but he may not have been the best either.

[Little Wing]

I disagree, the simple fact is Sam refused to even try to learn, if you actually practice something every day, regardless of how inept you are to start with you will become at least competent at it. If you worked out the events on a timeline they would probly increase in harshness as Sam gets older and randyll gets more frustrated as he runs out of ideas to fix sam, it's not like they had child psychologists he could turn to so he could find out the best way to fix Sam, he only had what his parents did and what other lords did.

When you think of your child as something to be fixed, as something broken in the first place for it to be fixed... what does that say about you?

ETA: Of course, I don't mean you literally - I mean Tarly. Don't wanna be misunderstood :)

[Lady Pounce of Whiskerrun]

While Cersei is defiantely not a good mother, I think that Robert's relationship to his children was similar to his reign. Robert loved sleeping around and getting women pregnant but hated what came afterwards the responsibilities. He loved fighting and winning the Throne but hated the responsibilities and duties of a King. He did love his kids though. All 19 of them, and I am including Cersei's kids cause Robert died thinking that he was the father.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure Robert loved Joffrey. My two cents is that when Joffrey was first born, Robert's reaction was something like, "Cool, a baby! We'll have fun playing!" But then, as Cersei explains, Joffrey would scream and cry anytime Robert held him, which must have been perplexing--Robert's bastards would smile and gurgle, suck his fingers, etc. As Joffrey grew up, Robert was increasingly repulsed by him (remember the episode with the kitchen cat?), and by the beginning of AGOT, he seems to despair of ever helping him become a good man who could succeed him (Robert) as king. Even Ned says, in effect, "You were wild at that age too, Robert," but Robert disagrees, saying that it's not just a "boys will be boys" kind of behavior with Joffrey.

[nightingalefive]

Craster I think is the worst father by all clinical standards. Afterwards, I'd mention Jaime, Randyll, and the others.

[Khal Cherian]

He got bullied by two older boys so Tarly's only recourse is death or exile? I'll say it again, Randyll Tarly is a psychopath who shouldn't be let near children because he has no clue what he's doing.

Also, the ginger stigma doesn't appear to exist in Westeros.

That wasn't the reason for his exile, it was just another of many factors that proved Sam would be unfit to rule any Holdfast let alone Randylls beloved Horn Hill. I dont believe that anyone, given a choice, would want Sam to rule there castles and lands. he would bow to anyone if they demanded it, he would marry his daughter to a begger if the begger asked. He would end up beggering and ruining his house.

Randyll could see that he had failed, and dickon had to be the heir so exile to the nw was really his only option to guarrentee the safety of his house.

[Jaime's Wench]

@Jaime's Wench...like a prior poster, I tend to give Jaime a free pass on the 'Worst Father' award. Any involvement with Joff, Myrcella and Tommen was discouraged by Cersei from the day Joff was born. Essentially he was allowed to be a sperm donor and mother's brother. Imagine having to be a KG and stand there watching your children call someone else father and not react. For years. I think that's a big part of his adolescent-like behavior at times. To his credit, he at least wonders if Joff would have been different if he had been more involved and decides that he will be more involved with Tommen.

I still think he could have done far more. As an uncle, he could have done something, even if it had been once a fortnight, sitting Joffrey on his knee and telling him a story of old. He could have taught him moral lessons, could have trained with him in the tiltyard, could have taught him to ride his first horse, or at least corrected him when he bullied his younger brother. All these things would fall into the 'acceptable' level of what an uncle could do. And he could have stuck two fingers up at Cersei the moment she objected :-p

[I'll pay the iron price]

Yeah Craster was a despicable father using his kids for his own enjoyment!

[Lady Pounce of Whiskerrun]

If he doesn't show it, how do we know?

(serious question)

Circumstantial evidence for Stannis loving his daughter:

1. He lets Patchface stick around.
   
2. He provides for Shireen's education (though she's young, Davos remarks that she reads very well).
   
3. Davos points out that Shireen is very fond of Edric Storm in his attempts to prevent Stannis from letting Melissandre burn Edric; Davos knows Stannis well, and he wouldn't have played the "Shireen will be upset" card if Stannis didn't love her/wouldn't care if her feelings were hurt.
   
4. He wants Shireen to sit the irone throne after him (though this is mitigated by his offer to Renly in ACOK to make Renly his heir...)
   
5. He (according to Davos) would rather see Shireen dead than wed to Tommen (a bastard born of incest) and put in the hands of the Lannisters; true, it's generally considered bad form to wish your child dead, BUT I think this just means he cares about Shireen's fate and wouldn't want her to have to live in what he would consider horrible circumstances.
   

[Khal Cherian]

When you think of your child as something to be fixed, as something broken in the first place for it to be fixed... what does that say about you?

ETA: Of course, I don't mean you literally - I mean Tarly. Don't wanna be misunderstood :)

well maybe not fixed, but altered.... Sam was his first born son and randyll wanted him to follow in his footsteps and be a strong little lord, but lets be honest Sam wasnt little lording material and needed some adjusting if he was ever gonna be. But he couldnt be changed anyway in the end.

[EddardCorleone]

Merret Frey was the worst father. He had 4 kids, Little Walder (sadistic SOB), Fat Walda (self explanatory), Gatehouse Ami (she'll raise her portcullis for anyone) and Marissa Frey (nothing much to say about this one).