Where whores go? - Is this a trick question?

[NitzanLeo]

Hey, just to add.

It is quite probable that Tywinn wasn't aware of Tyrion's lover in his bed.

The circumstances of the Varys organized encounters between Tyrion and his lover, with calculatedly lit spots to make the path recognizable, the place in which Varys met Tyrion in the very same secret passages, the loaded crossbow on the wall under which the heavy casket was recently moved, to let a dwarf reach it, are perfectly compatible with a master plan.

We even have a cup in the room, which could be used to deliver ine of the two poisons needed: one to lock Tywinn in his position (a drug already spoken of, and used, by court members, that could have killed him without Tyrion intervention, and whose effects are completely compatible with the lack of Tywinn's "production" in a long enough time for his alleged lover to completely fall asleep, and the strange conditions of his dead body) the other to stun Tyrion's lover into uncountiousness (a professional saving her own life is probably less prone to sex exaustion, while avenging Tyrion could seen be quite a good motive for her to be choosen a the killer if the things go bad: she was Tyrion's lover and Sansa's maid, connected with the two legally recognized poisoners of the last king, nephew of Tywinn).

The notorious contempt for women by Tywinn, his strange relationship with his cousin and wife, the absence of any known love interest of his (legal, illegal or political) before and after his cousin, the sexual violence of his punishment inflicted on women, always called in a sexually despective way ("whores") and last but not the least, he was the only male present at Tysha's suplice that did not rape her, could suggest that Tywinn Lannister, at least in some moment of his life, couldn't have a functional erection.

I can't honestly believe that. Not the part about Varys poisoning Tywin, that I can believe. But the fact that he wouldn't rape Tysha is just because he was making a point to his son, not trying to pleasure himself. I very much believe he slept with Shae, since she was naked in his bed and had a chain of hands around her neck, which, IIRC, only the Hand of the King may have. I don't believe in any way that Tywin had 'contempt towards women'. He just didn't find love after Joanna, and that's perfectly reasonable. The term 'whore' is very much normal in Westeros, if you haven't noticed. No one's called a 'prostitute', only whore. It's not derogative to be called a whore in Westeros, since that is the title of the profession. And I see no 'violence against women' done by Tywin except for his father's mistress and Tysha.

[Quiet Isle]

I can't honestly believe that. Not the part about Varys poisoning Tywin, that I can believe. But the fact that he wouldn't rape Tysha is just because he was making a point to his son, not trying to pleasure himself. I very much believe he slept with Shae, since she was naked in his bed and had a chain of hands around her neck, which, IIRC, only the Hand of the King may have. I don't believe in any way that Tywin had 'contempt towards women'. He just didn't find love after Joanna, and that's perfectly reasonable. The term 'whore' is very much normal in Westeros, if you haven't noticed. No one's called a 'prostitute', only whore. It's not derogative to be called a whore in Westeros, since that is the title of the profession. And I see no 'violence against women' done by Tywin except for his father's mistress and Tysha.

That - see above.

[NitzanLeo]

That - see above.

Excuse me?

[Lion of Judah]

What is the process of annulling a marriage in Westeros?

[Jaime's Wench]

What is the process of annulling a marriage in Westeros?

Killing them?

I assume it would be like in the Catholic Church... You would present evidence to the High Septon's approval. Though, somehow I doubt Tywin did that, being one to conceal his childrens' errors at all times (even from himself...). I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't still legally married.

[NitzanLeo]

I think Tywin could easily just tell the High Septon or whomever did the annulment that Tysha was just a whore bought by Jaime. Perhaps that was enough. Perhaps the fact that she's a whore and has been deflowered before the marriage has some weight to it. We all know that there was a lot of fuss around Margery Tyrell being deflowered or not before she's wed to Joff. Maybe that's how he got it annulled.

[MCBC]

I don`t think Tywin ever knew or cared where Tysha went. He didn`t need too, the plan was executed flawlessly. Tyrion never would have found out anything if Jaime never told him the truth.The comment was more in design to hurt Tyrion more than anything else.

Do you really think Tysha would become a whore after that tragic incident? I cant imagine she would have been comfortable letting any man touch her.

[Sworn Shield]

Tywin did have a habit of stealing Tyrion's toys.

Lanna at the happy port is 14 years old, Tyrion who is 26 or 27 was married to Tysha around 13 or 14 years ago. Lanna is described as having fine long golden hair, the girl is a Lannister most likely, but whether she is Tyrion's or Gerion's who knows.

[A wilding]

I don't really care if Tysha is the Sailor's Wife, but what I do believe is that Tywin probably took Tysha into his bed, and then sent her off Westeros.

I can't see Tywin taking a traumatised, probably near catatonic, most likely injured girl into his bed just after a barracks full of his guards had gang raped her. That would indicate a level of sexual perversion on his part that we would have surely been given other hints of (and indeed would quite likely be notorious in Westeros by now).

I very much believe he slept with Shae, since she was naked in his bed and had a chain of hands around her neck, which, IIRC, only the Hand of the King may have.

I don't understand why Shae wearing the chain is considered any proof of anything. Tyrion kept the chain by the bed at night, why not Tywin also? When Shae was put in the bed as a surprise present for Tyrion she put the chain on, why shouldn't she do something similar with Tywin?

The term 'whore' is very much normal in Westeros, if you haven't noticed. No one's called a 'prostitute', only whore. It's not derogative to be called a whore in Westeros, since that is the title of the profession.

It may be the title of a profession, but it is still very much an insult to call a woman a whore when she is not a member of the profession. For example see the various examples of people calling Cersei a whore.

Do you really think Tysha would become a whore after that tragic incident? I cant imagine she would have been comfortable letting any man touch her.

Sadly this is actually how many women have ended up whores. Soiled, self respect battered, and on their own with no other way to make a living, they end up stuck in it.

On the OP, I personally agree that Tyrion is just obsessing over a little-considered remark from his father. As for the Tyrion/Tysha marriage, I think Tywin, if forced to make a legal case as opposed to just rely on his authority, would simply argue that the marriage had not been a valid one in the first place.

[RWHamel]

Do you really think Tysha would become a whore after that tragic incident? I cant imagine she would have been comfortable letting any man touch her.

I'm sure you, after being gang raped by the garrison of Casterly Rock , would retain you sanity, but sadly the sailor's wife did not.

[Woman of War]

Read it, understand. I'm a lawyer, so i thought about the annulment. just don't think it would have been done. It could happen my way, it could happen yours. but i doubt tywin would have done an annulment - he didn't think it was a worth it. he just got rid of her. like it never happened. but if your way is true, then i believe Tyrion is going to die. to free Sansa from that vow. we shall see!

What I wanted to say is that Sansa does not have to be "free from that vow" in order to go wherever she wants. She IS free, or could be at the end of the books if she is still alive. Tyrion will not have her chained up, she can simply live her life, Tyrion will not force her into the dungeons of Casterly Rock.

On the other hand it might be Sansa who has to die at GRRM's hands so that Tyrion can come together with ??Tysha?? or whomever. Tyrion might die in the end but it won't be in order to "free" Sansa, it might happen to give a closure to Tyrion's arc. And it is well possible that Sansa's fate will be a sad one, her getting killed - her wolf is dead - or as lonely and cold Lady of the Vale, legally married or not.

It has been discussed in some older threads and in a more recent one as well that Tyrion might be lured back to Westeros by a fake Tysha, maybe planted by Baelish. This might bring back Tyrion in the speed of light as impulsive move against all reasonable political thinking. And it might be his doom or at least seriously endanger him. Here it is well possible that Sansa might have a hand in uncovering Littlefinger's scheme, supporting Tyrion and that fake Tysha person.

[Uncle Impe]

Its great to note that quite a few readers grasped the point that "where whores go" is not a real place and that Tyrion will never get there. Tyrion shall not find Tysha and Tysha is most definitely not the girl/woman those with lesser comprehension skills are speculating about.

It is obvious to most that the last words of Tywin 'wherever whores go" does not refer to an actual place in the Realm. Lord Tywin sure as hell wouldnt know where Tysha went because he doesnt gives a ratass. The man has been fighting wars, scheming for the throne, making alliances and plots he sure as hell does not have time to study the travel schedule of his son's prostitute wife. So for christsake stop wasting time speculating on "where whores go." it doesnt exist.

So why is Tyrion so interested in finding out "where whores go"? One may ask. The answer is simple. Martin is using him to illustrate why Tyrion is Tyrion. He has been belittled, abused, used, discarded, rejected and is not hunted by the those that are supposed to love him. He has always hated his father who happens to be one of his worst tormentors. A man who has denied Tyrion as his own son, blamed him for the death of his wife, denied him his every wish (from travelling the world, to becoming a septon etc) and ultimately denied him a chance of true love and happiness. It it lord Tywin who has scarred Tyrion and Tysha was the deepest wound Tyrion suffers. This is why he constantly seeks out "where whores go". He is somewhat mourning the loss of his true love. He knows he will never find her. This is why he will asks complete strangers if they know where whores go. He is not going to get an answer, as a reader this must be obvious to you. Tyrion will not one day ask some one "Where do whores go?" and get the reply "Over yonder, in fact Tysha is there as well"

[NitzanLeo]

Or, Uncle Impe, perhaps whores just go to hell. She could be dead by Tywin's hand, so obviously he does know where she is.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Do you really think Tysha would become a whore after that tragic incident? I cant imagine she would have been comfortable letting any man touch her.

I don't think you understand why women throughout history became prostitutes. It's not generally that they like sex so much they want to get paid for it, but that they have no other way of making money. If Tysha lived, she'd have had to travel far away to get out of reach of Tywin, well out of reach of any family support, and she didn't seem to have any particular skills - she was just a normal peasant girl. Unless she really lucked out and found another good man or a rare job that would take a wandering girl of "bad character" (ie not a virgin) she'd have probably ended up in a brothel or starved.

[Lady Winter Rose]

Its great to note that quite a few readers grasped the point that "where whores go" is not a real place and that Tyrion will never get there. It is obvious to most that the last words of Tywin 'wherever whores go" does not refer to an actual place in the Realm. So for christsake stop wasting time speculating on "where whores go." it doesnt exist.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am not asking where Tysha went, because I am very much convinced Tysha is dead.

I am asking, if that place exist, where average prostitute would went? Where average whore would go when she is about to become a prostitute.