AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Momont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?

[evita mgfs]

Thanks :) The opposite (or rather complementary) eye-colours stood out to me, because as an artist I work with colours a lot. Ghost being white, and Shaggy black (and Nymeria black and white), also seems to imply a connection to the HoB&W, they might need Arya to build a bridge between them. - There are a lot of bridges mentioned in WF, and Sansa get's very frustrated when the bridges in her snowcastle keep collapsing.

:agree: :bowdown: :bowdown: MANDERLY'S RAT COOK!!! Imply? Intimate? Suggest? :dunno: I think you NAILED IT! :agree: Nymeria is black and white to link her to Arya's present fate, which, in a twisted way, is in the "name of a god"! How can anyone refuse a god bidding you to perform his service? I am curious about that aspect of her allegiance, albeit temporary, as some have suggested, to the Faceless Men and their society, who ACT on behalf of a godhead, Him of Many Faces, who seems linked to those weirwood trees and all their faces, who seems linked to 1000 eyes and one 100 skins, knowledge deep as trees. I am seeing the LIGHT here! :cheers:

[evita mgfs]

To continue my ramblings, for I cannot shut up my inner voice here - what if Him of Many Faces IS BR and Waif is LEAF??? I can see sooo many similarities - BR whispers, so do those in the House of B&W, for Arya tells us it is sooo quiet, even a whisper can be overheard. Just like Bran and BR, who whispers sooo softly Bran has to strain to hear him.

And those masks in the basement of the HOB&W - aren't they like the weirwood faces Bran can peer through? Aryra is wearing a hooded mask just as her own brother hides behind the faces carved in the weirwood trees. Arya spies on people - she reports 3 new things to the kindly man when she returns when the moon is black?

And what about those moons - a black hole in the sky/Arya's moon is black?

And what about the kindly man having a grave worm in his eye and first appearing to Arya as a skull face - doesn't it remind you of BR with the root growing out his eye?

Wow! I can think of even more, like they are both shrouded in darkness; both serving a higher power, or actually becoming a part of a godhood that may be somehow linked?

What about those weirwood doors in the HoB&W? Happy coincidence, or more?

You got me on a roll here, MANDERLY'S COOK RAT!!!

[Little Wing]

Yes, the similarities are there. Also, the 3EC tells Bran something to the effect of "Only when we learn how to look can we truly see." And Syrio tells almost the same thing to Arya.

Arya_Nym has already written up the parallels in a thread, I linked it already in your Arya Water dancer thread.

Both the Many faced God and the Children of the forest share this...ambiguity. For instance, the CotF seem to have a respect for all that lives but there's that scene of a man being sacrificed in front of a tree in the fashion of the druids (although them sacrificing could have been something the Romans spiced up their accounts of druids to make them seem like frightful savages, like Old Nan did with the wildlings...). The House of Black and White, in my opinion has a humane aspect to it, giving a peaceful death to the poor and sick... but then again, they are the FM... so, ambiguous to say the least...

[evita mgfs]

Yes, the similarities are there. Also, the 3EC tells Bran something to the effect of "Only when we learn how to look can we truly see." And Syrio tells almost the same thing to Arya.

Arya_Nym has already written up the parallels in a thread, I linked it already in your Arya Water dancer thread.

Both the Many faced God and the Children of the forest share this...ambiguity. For instance, the CotF seem to have a respect for all that lives but there's that scene of a man being sacrificed in front of a tree in the fashion of the druids (although them sacrificing could have been something the Romans spiced up their accounts of druids to make them seem like frightful savages, like Old Nan did with the wildlings...). The House of Black and White, in my opinion has a humane aspect to it, giving a peaceful death to the poor and sick... but then again, they are the FM... so, ambiguous to say the least...

tion

:agree: :bowdown: LITTLE WING! Thanks! I will check out the link, although I have to say I am proud of myself for having missed Arya Nym's interp somehow and coming to the enlightening all on my own, if you know what I mean. It validates me to myself and makes me a little less craven to share my assumptions!

I knew there was something with that Him of Many Faces and Bran of Many Faces - tee, hee. It really works with our theory of Water and Earth uniting, as well as Air and Fire.

Cool Beans! Meow Meow! Woof Woof! You win a squirrel: http://ladyevyta.tumblr.com/post/35093190416/squirrel-buckeye-squirrel-wearing-a-beanie-cap

I love your observation that the HoB&W has a humane aspect. This is how I see it as well, although Martin likes to have his "grey areas"

[Dark Heart]

:agree: :bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART: Your HEART IS NOT DARK AT ALL, truly. It is a heart full of love. I cannot wait to read more of your analyses. You offer so much to the group overall, and now with your observations of the direwolves. They are my personal favs in the animal world of Martin for I am such a dog lover. [However, I love the dragons and Mormont's raven equally as well - sort of. I think maybe the wolves are a tiny tad bit above the dragons and raven - the dragons are growing more dangerous after DwD, and Mormont's raven is becoming more and more prophetic - so I am eager to see how this all plays out!]

Thank you! You are making me blush. :blushing:

Well, my forum "name" is a reference to Ghost of High Hear calling Arya "Dark Heat". I don't think Arya is bad so I'm taking the name to be foreshadowing of Arya getting the Dark Sister. :P

Or / and being the one to kill Mel (Lord of Light's burning heat) or (I hope not :crying:) Lady Stoneheart.

Anyways, I like your suggestion about Ghost being a 'base born' direwolf. It fits perfectly with Jon. Maybe we will learn more about Ghost's parentage along with Jon's parentage in the future? Hmm. Has my wheels spinning on that prospect. When Jon finally wargs Ghost, we may be enlightened to many, many things - for if Ghost is representative of the old gods and has been sent by them, then BAM! Jon will learn the knowledge deep as the roots of trees, the knowledge the First Men knew now forgotten in Winterfell, but remembered in the Neck.

I think that BR will be he one to tell Jon about his parents.

He's one of the only living people to know the truth.

And it would be poetic. One Targ talking another Targ, One LC of NW talking another LC of NW, one warg to another warg, one bastard to another bastard.

I have worried about Shaggydog as well. He reminds me of a pit bull breed with a bite that locks. After Ghost's wolf-vision of Shaggydog taking down a unicorn and un-horning it, well, that sounds like an unhappy event. Although maybe these unicorns are vicious man-eating beasts, and not the unicorns of fairie stories that I am familiar with! I am sure Martin has put a sharp edge on his version of the mystical beasts.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if Martin!World unicorns were blood drinking vampires with tentacles or something.

Until Rickon learns discipline - and how to master his obvious 'wolf's blood' - he may indeed be a wild card -and an irresponsible pet owner who allows his wolf to go unleashed here and about. I hope with Osha's wise guidance, he learns - and if Davos finds him, mayhap he can be a surrogate father-figure for poor baby Rickon. He is soo young to have such a responsibility as a direwolf, yes?

Davos would be good for him.

He is one of few truly good and honorable people in the series. And he had (and lost all but one of his) sons.

Regarding Sansa - yes, you are spot on with your analogy. I am hoping that since she has been the "little bird" locked in her Eyrie, or cage, she will sprout wings metaphorically and fly over her brothers and sisters as a force of AIR. [That is my crackpot theory]. Since she loses Lady, another animal will call to her. And we know both BR and Bran are flying around on already ridden ravens, yes?

I'm hoping for a bird of pray.

It would be nicely ironic if the "brainless singing bird" turns out to be a high flying, elegant and deadly falcon.

Again, AWESOME WORK!

You win a squirrel - a squirrel wearing a hat: http://ladyevyta.tum...ng-a-beanie-cap

Aw, cuteness overload!

Thank you for making me smile!

Great analysis Dark Heart! And Evita too! Thanks for the squirrel yesterday, I wanted to be a squirrel when I was a kid (also a fairy princess, and a lion).

About Shaggydog: I've mentioned this before, but Shaggy's colours are the exact opposite of Ghost's. Red and green are complementary colours (opposite), and so are black and white. I think this could mean that they end up on opposite sides, or that they will need each other to complement the other. Yellow is the colour in the middle between green and red, and grey is in between black and white.

Their eye colours are also the colours of the eyes of CotF and people who have greendreams (like Jojen, and some of the CotF). We already know that Rickon had at least one greendream, about Ned's death.

ThanksThe opposite (or rather complementary) eye-colours stood out to me, because as an artist I work with colours a lot. Ghost being white, and Shaggy black (and Nymeria black and white), also seems to imply a connection to the HoB&W, they might need Arya to build a bridge between them. - There are a lot of bridges mentioned in WF, and Sansa get's very frustrated when the bridges in her snowcastle keep collapsing.

Amazing! I wouldn't have considered that.

You are totally right, that way the colors work perfectly. :bowdown:

Question for you all;

Would you be interested in reading about wolves, wolf god, dragons an ravens in old Slavic mythology?

I can't ofter you a lot of quotes (most sites about them are in Russian or other Slavic languages) but I can (attempt) to translate from those sites and books I have.

Let me know and I get to translating.

[Little Wing]

Har! I've got my trusty book on Slavic mythology - Slovenska mitologija (in Serbian) - I use it all the time for references in ASoIaF.

Wolves and dragons are a big thing in Slavic mythology as in other European lore. The wolf is seen as an ancestor of Slavic people and was therefore revered but is also a taboo - a creature of darkness whose name should not be spoken during the autumnal periods (November actually!) and during the night.

Dragons were magical and dangerous but also seen as protectors, very intelligent but also vain and unpredictable. And they can talk ;) There are three kinds of which only the one was just described - in Serbian: zmaj. The other two are: azdaja and ala which are not as ... um, noble.

There's so much more of course...

[evita mgfs]

Thank you! You are making me blush. :blushing:

Well, my forum "name" is a reference to Ghost of High Hear calling Arya "Dark Heat". I don't think Arya is bad so I'm taking the name to be foreshadowing of Arya getting the Dark Sister. :P

Or / and being the one to kill Mel (Lord of Light's burning heat) or (I hope not :crying:) Lady Stoneheart.

I think that BR will be he one to tell Jon about his parents.

He's one of the only living people to know the truth.

And it would be poetic. One Targ talking another Targ, One LC of NW talking another LC of NW, one warg to another warg, one bastard to another bastard.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if Martin!World unicorns were blood drinking vampires with tentacles or something.

Davos would be good for him.

He is one of few truly good and honorable people in the series. And he had (and lost all but one of his) sons.

I'm hoping for a bird of pray.

It would be nicely ironic if the "brainless singing bird" turns out to be a high flying, elegant and deadly falcon.

Aw, cuteness overload!

Thank you for making me smile!

Amazing! I wouldn't have considered that.

You are totally right, that way the colors work perfectly. :bowdown:

Question for you all;

Would you be interested in reading about wolves, wolf god, dragons an ravens in old Slavic mythology?

I can't ofter you a lot of quotes (most sites about them are in Russian or other Slavic languages) but I can (attempt) to translate from those sites and books I have.

Let me know and I get to translating.

:agree: DARK HEART: Thank you for responding to my observations line for line. Your thoughts inspired all my ideas, so you deserve the credit, truly.

I did not make the connection with your name - and I LOVE THE IDEA of Arya getting DARK SISTER!!!! :drool: How appropo that would be, as well as ironic. I can even imagine scenarios of how that will come to pass. I also think BR will tell Jon - and then maybe he and Bran together will communicate this knowledge to Jon via Ghost. That is how it plays in my head, anyway.

I would love to read the mythologies. As you know, I am all about that sort of thing. Especially the wolves and dragons and such that apply to our thread here.

As a matter of fact, I am excited and can't wait!! :drool:

Please do not put yourself to any great trouble, :ack: although I always spend hours on all things Martin :dunno: _ he is like weighlifting for the mind, no?

Good stuff again! I cannot wait to read more!

[evita mgfs]

:bowdown: :wub: DARK HEART and LITTLE WING: BRING IT ON! You know ARYA NYM is preparing one of her MEGAPOSTS on the aspect of CATS to share, so I say add the other mythologies as well. Arya Nym always makes allusions to mythologies as well in ALL her posts - so we will be covering all the bases. Moreover, I am convinced that Martin IS that well read and draws from many of the mythologies as well to create his fascinating characterizations!

[Dark Heart]

Har! I've got my trusty book on Slavic mythology - Slovenska mitologija (in Serbian) - I use it all the time for references in ASoIaF.

Wolves and dragons are a big thing in Slavic mythology as in other European lore. The wolf is seen as an ancestor of Slavic people and was therefore revered but is also a taboo - a creature of darkness whose name should not be spoken during the autumnal periods (November actually!) and during the night.

Dragons were magical and dangerous but also seen as protectors, very intelligent but also vain and unpredictable. And they can talk ;) There are three kinds of which only the one was just described - in Serbian: zmaj. The other two are: azdaja and ala which are not as ... um, noble.

There's so much more of course...

We love the same myths and have the same books then.

But mostly I'm thinking about Dažbog (wolf god and "father" or Russians and Serbs), Veles (god of forest, underworld and dragons. Who is also opposed to Perun - god of thunder and storm) and various 3 headed dragons like Zmey Gorynych .

Here are (short and only mostly accurate) info from the wiki:

Dažbog (Bosnian, Croatian: Dabog, Daždbog ; Serbian Latin: Dajbog or in cyrillic Дајбог (or Дажбог); Polish: Dadźbóg, Russian: Даж(д)ьбог, Bulgarian: Даждбог), alternatively Dazhbog, Dazbog, Dazhdbog, or Dadzbóg, was one of the major gods of Slavic mythology, most likely a solar deity and possibly a cultural hero.

Although these medieval documents come from the East Slavic area, names similar to Dažbog/Dažboh have survived in the folklores of both West and South Slavic populations. Of particular interest is the Serbian Dabog or Dajbog (most modern mythographers take for granted this is the same character as East Slavic Dažbog/Dažboh), also known as Hromi Daba (meaning "Daba the Lame"), described in folklore as a lame "shepherd of wolves", an ugly demon-lord who rules the underworld and travels through the world of men.

Most scholars agree the root dažd- or daj- is derived from root of the verb dati "to give". Thus, according to Dubenskij, Ognovskij and Niderle, Dažbog would be "giving god", "god-giver, "god-donor".

In his studies of Serbian folklore, Čajkanović also concluded that many more benevolent aspects of Dažbog were passed on to popular saints in folk Christianity, in particularly onto St. Sava, Serbian national saint, who, although undoubtedly was a real historical person, in folk tales often appears in the role of culture hero

Not on wiki but Dažbog is often "seen" as lame old man, lame wolf / man (think classic werewolf) or lame wolf riding a pale horse.

A big pack of gray wolves is always following him.

He is both a solar and chthonic god. He is the one who gives gifts.

Gifts can be everything from gold, health, "nemušti jezik" (also often given by snakes. It's a ability to understand and talk with all animals) to death.

Hospitality and guest rights are sacred to him. He have been known to transform into a traveling man and asks for a place to spend the night.

If the "guest rights" are observed he gives blessings (sometimes, if they want him, he even make babies with human womens. The childer grow up to be heros and do incredible things) but if they are not his anger can be terrible.

He's asociated with sun and the moon too.

And his wolves even entered into Orthodox Christianity.

Sain Save could speak with wolves. And on the night of the Orthodox Christmas celebrations Badnjak (oak) is set on fire and prayers are said while it's burning. Most of it is asking for blessings but old (and still observed in tradicional families) part is caling to "brothers by God" wolves.

At twilight in farming vilages oldest man will take food ouside. The food is seen as "diner" to wolves. And both a way to reinforce the "brotherhod" and as a sacrifice that will please the wolves (and stop them from eating farm animals).

Later (when I find my old uni ethnology books) I post more about wolves, Veles and dragons.

[evita mgfs]

We love the same myths and have the same books then.

snip. The food is seen as "diner" to wolves. And both a way to reinforce the "brotherhod" and as a sacrifice that will please the wolves (and stop them from eating farm animals).

Later (when I find my old uni ethnology books) I post more about wolves, Veles and dragons.

:bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART! AMAZING! :cheers:

Here is what I came up with in a flash – not even thinking too deeply – just applying what we have been mentioning on our thread and the other Arya and Direwolf threads as well.

Not on wiki but Dažbog is often "seen" as lame old man, lame wolf / man (think classic werewolf) or lame wolf riding a pale horse.

Any of the Stark direwolves and their Masters can align with this “lame wolf”/werewolf idea. The pale mare reminds me of Khlaleesi’s mare of prophecy as well as the White Walkers riding dead horses reanimated.

A big pack of gray wolves is always following him.

This reminds me of Nymeria and her wolf pack.

He is both a solar and chthonic god. He is the one who gives gifts.

Arya gives the gift of death to those appointed by Him of Many Faces!

Gifts can be everything from gold, health, "nemušti jezik" (also often given by snakes. It's a ability to understand and talk with all animals) to death.

BR, CotF, and the old gods gave the Stark children direwolves; hence, they have within them the gift of warging which is stimulated or inspired by their mental telepathic connection with the direwolves. They needed the bonding with these wolves to awaken what is/was already in their Stark Blood, the same as the First Men.

Also, Kiss’dbyFire has a theory about the “warging” being a bargaining tool in the Pact of the

First Men made when the wisest of all gathered to hammer out the pact.

Hospitality and guest rights are sacred to him. He have been known to transform into a traveling man and asks for a place to spend the night.

Zeus governed the laws of hospitality for the Greek myth, and he too traveled in disguise to make sure his people abided by his guest right. If not, they were served divine vengeance.

If the "guest rights" are observed he gives blessings (sometimes, if they want him, he even make babies with human womens. The childer grow up to be heros and do incredible things) but if they are not his anger can be terrible.

This relates to the violations of hospitality at Crasters, where they killed their host and LC Mormont and at the Wall for killing [maybe] their next LC Jon Snow.

Also, the Boltons are violating the laws of hospitality by taking the castle while the little lord is present in the weirwood trees watching the mummer’s farce of a wedding play out with his murder of ravens.

The price these folk pay will be dear indeed.

He's asociated with sun and the moon too.

Bran is associated with the moon. Jon as well, and Arya.

And his wolves even entered into Orthodox Christianity.

Sain Save could speak with wolves. And on the night of the Orthodox Christmas celebrations Badnjak (oak) is set on fire and prayers are said while it's burning. Most of it is asking for blessings but old (and still observed in tradicional families) part is caling to "brothers by God" wolves.

The Stark children symbolically talk, communicate and share their emotions with their wolves.

At twilight in farming vilages oldest man will take food ouside. The food is seen as "diner" to wolves. And both a way to reinforce the "brotherhod" and as a sacrifice that will please the wolves (and stop them from eating farm animals).

This reminds me of Craster leaving his “gift” to the Others, his sons, so that they will not bother him.

This also reminds me of Jojen paste and the offering to Bran, if Jojen is indeed Jojen paste.

HOW DID I DO? :dunno: :drool: :blushing:

[Little Wing]

Indeed, Dazhbog is the protector deity of Serbs and I've posted about him before because of his distinctive physical feature - he is the lame wolf, like Ned in AGoT after being wounded in the scuffle with Jaime. The moment I read that I made the connection, but I still don't know if GRRM had Dazhbog in mind when he lamed Ned.

Dazhbog becomes lame with the coming of winter, no less, because as Dark Heart has said, he is a solar deity (and a chthonic, but more on that later) and as the days shorten, so did people believe the sun's power waned. Dazhbog's lameness parallels the sun's waning power as winter approaches and goes away around Christmas when the sun's "power" starts coming back day by day, with the nights slowly growing shorter. Again, I don't know if GRRM had this in mind, no one here has sided with me on this when I brought it up before, but I still keep writing it, yay! :commie:

Saint Sava is the Christian assimilation of Dazhbog and he is seen as the "wolf-shepherd". The benevolent ancestral aspects of Dazhbog were transferred onto him. As to the chthonic nature of Dazhbog - In the mythical view of the world, the Sun has to pass through the underworld during the night to reach the eastern horizon by the dawn, the lameness here also referring to the sun being trapped in the underworld.

Guest right is a very big deal among Slavic lore as well as many others. I won't repeat what Dark Heart has already said, but a stranger who seeks shelter is always welcome for he may be Dazhbog in disguise and letting him in as a guest is also protection from him as well as a great honour.

The internet hasn't been useful when Slavic deities are concerned, I turn to my books here, there's much more in them, the wiki hasn't got all the details, and it's always in the details... but the combination of two works best.

[evita mgfs]

Indeed, Dazhbog is the protector deity of Serbs and I've posted about him before because of his distinctive physical feature - he is the lame wolf, like Ned in AGoT after being wounded in the scuffle with Jaime. The moment I read that I made the connection, but I still don't know if GRRM had Dazhbog in mind when he lamed Ned.

Dazhbog becomes lame with the coming of winter, no less, because as Dark Heart has said, he is a solar deity (and a chthonic, but more on that later) and as the days shorten, so did people believe the sun's power waned. Dazhbog's lameness parallels the sun's waning power as winter approaches and goes away around Christmas when the sun's "power" starts coming back day by day, with the nights slowly growing shorter. Again, I don't know if GRRM had this in mind, no one here has sided with me on this when I brought it up before, but I still keep writing it, yay! :commie:

Saint Sava is the Christian assimilation of Dazhbog and he is seen as the "wolf-shepherd". The benevolent ancestral aspects of Dazhbog were transferred onto him. As to the chthonic nature of Dazhbog - In the mythical view of the world, the Sun has to pass through the underworld during the night to reach the eastern horizon by the dawn, the lameness here also referring to the sun being trapped in the underworld.

Guest right is a very big deal among Slavic lore as well as many others. I won't repeat what Dark Heart has already said, but a stranger who seeks shelter is always welcome for he may be Dazhbog in disguise and letting him in as a guest is also protection from him as well as a great honour.

The internet hasn't been useful when Slavic deities are concerned, I turn to my books here, there's much more in them, the wiki hasn't got all the details, and it's always in the details... but the combination of two works best.

:bowdown: :bowdown: LITTLE WING: I must not recall the post for I find the link to Ned as the lame wolf pure Genius! Good call there!

I mentioned Zeus above and his role as the god of travelers. This plays out in the Odyssey when Odysseus returns to his palace in Ithaca and finds the 108 suitors of his wife Penelope eating him out of house and home. Odysseus punishes them violently for their transgressions, and the gods intercede to prevent civil war and announce Odysseus in the right for taking the lives of the nasty men who abused his wife and even plotted to kill his son Telemachus.

This is what I predict will play out at WF with the Bolton's - in my little world, I guess. I see Bran issuing a bloody vengeance, freeing the dead Starks from the heart tree, cracking open the graves in the WF crypts, and allowing the remains to rise and seek justice on his behalf for his family.

Bran sees all that happens. He even knows about the marriage bed with Ramsey, Theon, Jeyne, and a dog - for a raven quorks in the godswood. :dunno:

Great interpretations, Little Wing. I loved all you had to say, and sorry I missed it the first time around. I personally think repeating points a good thing, anyway. There is an awful lot of knowledge many have posted, and it is hard to absorb it all at one reading, at least for me. But then I cannot translate languages as you and Dark Heart can!!! :crying:

[Little Wing]

Ah, I've posted on Heresy and some other mythological related posts, but it wasn't noticed :dunno: I think the connection is plain as day, and agree with you on stating that, yes, Martin is that well read.

I'd love for Bran to bring some Old Gods vengeance on the Boltons! :devil:

[Dark Heart]

Indeed, Dazhbog is the protector deity of Serbs and I've posted about him before because of his distinctive physical feature - he is the lame wolf, like Ned in AGoT after being wounded in the scuffle with Jaime. The moment I read that I made the connection, but I still don't know if GRRM had Dazhbog in mind when he lamed Ned.

Dazhbog becomes lame with the coming of winter, no less, because as Dark Heart has said, he is a solar deity (and a chthonic, but more on that later) and as the days shorten, so did people believe the sun's power waned. Dazhbog's lameness parallels the sun's waning power as winter approaches and goes away around Christmas when the sun's "power" starts coming back day by day, with the nights slowly growing shorter. Again, I don't know if GRRM had this in mind, no one here has sided with me on this when I brought it up before, but I still keep writing it, yay! :commie:

Saint Sava is the Christian assimilation of Dazhbog and he is seen as the "wolf-shepherd". The benevolent ancestral aspects of Dazhbog were transferred onto him. As to the chthonic nature of Dazhbog - In the mythical view of the world, the Sun has to pass through the underworld during the night to reach the eastern horizon by the dawn, the lameness here also referring to the sun being trapped in the underworld.

Guest right is a very big deal among Slavic lore as well as many others. I won't repeat what Dark Heart has already said, but a stranger who seeks shelter is always welcome for he may be Dazhbog in disguise and letting him in as a guest is also protection from him as well as a great honour.

The internet hasn't been useful when Slavic deities are concerned, I turn to my books here, there's much more in them, the wiki hasn't got all the details, and it's always in the details... but the combination of two works best.

I love that theory!

And while reading I had a similar idea. Dazhbog is "lame father of wolves and wolf/human heroes) and Ned is turned into a lame father of wolves and wolf/human heroes.

Does Psoglav (literally doghead) sounds a bit like the Hound to you? (I'm assuming you know about them so the description is for everybody else)

Psoglav is a demonic being that looks like a human with dog head (think Anubis but more dangerous and deadly), sometimes he have iron fangs and also sometimes he have one one or 3 eyes.

Psoglavs are associated with battlefields and graves. They also eat the dead.

And during Ottoman wars in Europe some Serbian and Vlach knights went in battle with snarling dog head helms.

In part to be more fearsome and in part for the association with Psoglav.

I could be seeing things but to me that sounds remarkably like the Hound.

[evita mgfs]

Ah, I've posted on Heresy and some other mythological related posts, but it wasn't noticed :dunno: I think the connection is plain as day, and agree with you on stating that, yes, Martin is that well read.

I'd love for Bran to bring some Old Gods vengeance on the Boltons! :devil:

:agree: Down with the Boltons!

[redriver]

Congrats Evita,I think we are back on track with all this animal/pet discussion.

The magical part of discovering your chosen pet has been well covered here,as have the Baratheon/Stark associations,and Jon´s early telepathy with his "odd" direwolf.

I think it´s in the Catelyn POV where she returns to Riverrun from Renly´s camp,that an outrider says that the Greatjon is convinced the direwolves were sent by the old gods to the Stark children.

I don´t dispute this for a second,but I doubt they had a human escort.Probably went through the gorge.

[Dark Heart]

:bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART! AMAZING! :cheers:

Here is what I came up with in a flash – not even thinking too deeply – just applying what we have been mentioning on our thread and the other Arya and Direwolf threads as well.

Not on wiki but Dažbog is often "seen" as lame old man, lame wolf / man (think classic werewolf) or lame wolf riding a pale horse.

Any of the Stark direwolves and their Masters can align with this “lame wolf”/werewolf idea. The pale mare reminds me of Khlaleesi’s mare of prophecy as well as the White Walkers riding dead horses reanimated.

A big pack of gray wolves is always following him.

This reminds me of Nymeria and her wolf pack.

He is both a solar and chthonic god. He is the one who gives gifts.

Arya gives the gift of death to those appointed by Him of Many Faces!

Gifts can be everything from gold, health, "nemušti jezik" (also often given by snakes. It's a ability to understand and talk with all animals) to death.

BR, CotF, and the old gods gave the Stark children direwolves; hence, they have within them the gift of warging which is stimulated or inspired by their mental telepathic connection with the direwolves. They needed the bonding with these wolves to awaken what is/was already in their Stark Blood, the same as the First Men.

Also, Kiss’dbyFire has a theory about the “warging” being a bargaining tool in the Pact of the

First Men made when the wisest of all gathered to hammer out the pact.

Hospitality and guest rights are sacred to him. He have been known to transform into a traveling man and asks for a place to spend the night.

Zeus governed the laws of hospitality for the Greek myth, and he too traveled in disguise to make sure his people abided by his guest right. If not, they were served divine vengeance.

If the "guest rights" are observed he gives blessings (sometimes, if they want him, he even make babies with human womens. The childer grow up to be heros and do incredible things) but if they are not his anger can be terrible.

This relates to the violations of hospitality at Crasters, where they killed their host and LC Mormont and at the Wall for killing [maybe] their next LC Jon Snow.

Also, the Boltons are violating the laws of hospitality by taking the castle while the little lord is present in the weirwood trees watching the mummer’s farce of a wedding play out with his murder of ravens.

The price these folk pay will be dear indeed.

He's asociated with sun and the moon too.

Bran is associated with the moon. Jon as well, and Arya.

And his wolves even entered into Orthodox Christianity.

Sain Save could speak with wolves. And on the night of the Orthodox Christmas celebrations Badnjak (oak) is set on fire and prayers are said while it's burning. Most of it is asking for blessings but old (and still observed in tradicional families) part is caling to "brothers by God" wolves.

The Stark children symbolically talk, communicate and share their emotions with their wolves.

At twilight in farming vilages oldest man will take food ouside. The food is seen as "diner" to wolves. And both a way to reinforce the "brotherhod" and as a sacrifice that will please the wolves (and stop them from eating farm animals).

This reminds me of Craster leaving his “gift” to the Others, his sons, so that they will not bother him.

This also reminds me of Jojen paste and the offering to Bran, if Jojen is indeed Jojen paste.

HOW DID I DO? :dunno: :drool: :blushing:

Some see his pale (green-ish) as the same as Death's horse.

Supposedly the horse can go in any "realm" and is never tired.

He did indeed give the gift of death.

But there's another interesting god; Chernobog (the Black God).

He had many functions. God of "evil", death, murder, underworld and was the opposite (or in some myths another side of) Belobog or the White God.

Why am I bringing him up?

You know the Old Nan tales about old man "going to hunt" when the winter is strong and there's no food?

That they go in the snow to die and so sacrifice themselves (they won't eat what little food is left) for the good of the family?

Chernobog had a similar ritual.

Old people who would decide they are a burden for their family and that everybody would be better off if they were dead, would ask one of the older women in the family to make "bread for Chernobog".

Once the bread is made the old person would take it and ask one of the mature trusted man to go with him "so they give Chernobog his bread".

They'd go in the forest of a vale and then the old man would kneel and put the bread on his head.

The second man's duty would be to take a large hammer and bring it down on the bread and old man's head and so kill him.

As he would hit "Chernobog's bread" first it wasn't considered kinslaying or even murder.

Ability to speak with animals is alweys gifted by gods or special magical animals. So, it works here too.

Very similary to Zeus, yes.

Hospitality was the most important thing to Slavs.

Accepting a guest and treating him right was seen as a higest duty and pleasure.

Blood feuds (that could last for generatons or never end) would erupt over violation of guest rights.

In case like that it would be see as a offense to the gods as well as man and somthing only blood can wash away.

"Blood asks for blood and only blood pays for blood" was the old way.

Not taking ravenge was seen as sacrelige. Becuse gods ask for the slight to be revanged and "shads of the dead" couldn't rest until the blood fued is done.

So, yeah. I hope the Boltons and Freys are "paid".

Hm, about Craster's "gifts"... yes and now.

Wolves are seen as both positive and negative force. And as "brothers". There's also a belife that "wolves have a right to sheeps.

So, while farmers would prefer their animals are not eaten, way back befor Christianity, they also wouldn't try to poison or kill wolves in "dishonorable way" (and some time they wouldn't hurt them at all).

The wolf destroys but he is still a sacred animal and not to be hunt the "common" animals.

[Little Wing]

Indeed, Dark Heart!

Dogshead would be the translation and we have Harma Dogshead in the books as well... but the Hound could be a parallel as well.

Psoglav or Dogshead is a human looking scavenger demon with the head of a dog that has three eyes and the hands and feet of a goat... some accounts also say he has teeth of iron, to crush bones easier with them. They live in a dark land, usually east, by a river, where the sun never shines - so probably underground. Gems can be found there, so another reason to believe they lived underground. They can cross to our world to raid graves and feed on corpses, but sometimes they attack the living too.

So, nasty buggers. Evita, do your cross check with other mythology/lore! :laugh:

[Dark Heart]

Indeed, Dark Heart!

Dogshead would be the translation and we have Harma Dogshead in the books as well... but the Hound could be a parallel as well.

Psoglav or Dogshead is a human looking scavenger demon with the head of a dog that has three eyes and the hands and feet of a goat... some accounts also say he has teeth of iron, to crush bones easier with them. They live in a dark land, usually east, by a river, where the sun never shines - so probably underground. Gems can be found there, so another reason to believe they lived underground. They can cross to our world to raid graves and feed on corpses, but sometimes they attack the living too.

So, nasty buggers. Evita, do your cross check with other mythology/lore! :laugh:

Yup, the myth is different in different places.

Some see them with feet of a goat and some with human looking bodies. But the head is mostly the same.

Oh, another thing. You are quite right that they are night / dark demons. And I think I remember them being afraid of sun and fire.

OT: I'm feeling silly and am going to change my profile picture.

[Little Wing]

Yeah, human bodies with all the beastly additions. It doesn't say anything about them fearing the sun light but could be...

Cool gif by the way - me like :o