AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Momont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

His father tossed the antler to the side and cleansed his hands in the snow. "I'm surprised she lived long enough to whelp," he said. His voice broke the spell.

"Maybe she didn't," Jory said. "I've heard tales . . . maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came."

"Born with the dead," another man put in. "Worse luck."

So perhaps the pups are born 'with the dead', the same as the Stark kids' power awakens when the dead come walking. The same as (probably) Jon Snow was born from a dying Lyanna. The same as Bran opening his third eye in the crypts amidst the dead. The same as Arya's warg powers awake in the House of Black and White, the house of death. The same as Jon's true powers will probably awake now he's either almost dead, or truly dead. Interesting...

Doesn't bode well for Starks, does it? xP I never made the connection of Jon being born of dead Lyanna and the pups possibly coming out of a dead direwolf. Good one.

But on the Ice and Fire thing... I'm not really buying the whole Starks/Ice/direwolves thing. I mean I do think they've some sort of connection to the Others but I don't see it as once being on the same side like some people suggest (excluding the Night's King, if the stories are true.) I think it would be more of a kill the enemy with their own weapons deal. But that's just me.

[Little Wing]

LITTLE WING: You must tell! Why not? I want to learn EVERYTHING! No fair you and Redriver holding out on us! :crying: :bawl:

I am teasing, of course. But yes, I think it is appropriate. The others could be animalistic - and they keep wights like pets. So it is on point. Yes? :dunce:

Well, the Others and the children may be connected, GRRM has said it somewhere but I think we should be careful when speculating. I have my crackpots, but won't bother you guys with that now, some other time mayhaps. Anyway, the wood dancers are mentioned only once by Maester Luwin, so we'll get to that part as well in the story soon enough. They were the Children's soldiers let's say, and they wore armor that was a camouflage, kind of like the Others do now. So, maybe they rebelled against the Children for making a pact with the enemy (the First Men), maybe the children banished them for wanting to bring the dead to life in order to fill their ranks?

So, you see, it's very obscure - I say, let's stick to the animals and the topic and stray only little. :)

ETA: Oh, and Asha mentions them, but that's another story.

[evita mgfs]

Well done and thanks for kicking things off so nicely.Nice find about the Royce/Stark connection.

snip

On a foreshadowing note,I'm going to highlight the first description of the Other-"Tall it was,and gaunt and hard as old bones,with flesh pale as milk."-because a very similar description of a Stark crops up in a subsequent chapter.

REDRIVER: [spoiler ALERT] jUST A speculation here: but the way the weirwood in WF is described, could this ESSENCE, A LIKELY STARK ESSENCE, you speak of somehow be trapped in said tree?

Will some power release this ESSENCE to allow it to return to the dead Starks in their WF crypts?

:dunno:

Will their DIREWOLVES'S ESSENCE be released as well?

See where you have me going?

I'll check for your PM.

[evita mgfs]

Well, the Others and the children may be connected, GRRM has said it somewhere but I think we should be careful when speculating. I have my crackpots, but won't bother you guys with that now, some other time mayhaps. Anyway, the wood dancers are mentioned only once by Maester Luwin, so we'll get to that part as well in the story soon enough. They were the Children's soldiers let's say, and they wore armor that was a camouflage, kind of like the Others do now. So, maybe they rebelled against the Children for making a pact with the enemy (the First Men), maybe the children banished them for wanting to bring the dead to life in order to fill their ranks?

So, you see, it's very obscure - I say, let's stick to the animals and the topic and stray only little. :)

LITTLE WING: I love this theory! It actually makes sense. Spot On, there! Then Bran baby isn't in danger, yes? I so worry about that little lord.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Sorry... :dunce: But it's nice we are on the same wave length ;)

Yes, the dragons could be the Fire's representatives, as direwolves are Ice's. They come and they go together mayhaps? :unsure:

Your second observation is great! I like it! Death not being the end but a source of power... How cool is that? Melissandra, eat your heart out!

Um, we can go all crazy with theories, yeah, I'm always up for that, just don't want our discussion to go all over the place and drown in chaos... but, what is dead may never die, so carry on...don't mind my grumpiness :D

Yes, you might compare it to a blood sacrifice or something. I definitely think the Ice and Fire magic are more related than we think. Gives a whole new perspective to "Only death can pay for life". I don't think sacrifices the way Melissandre uses them are the way to go, but I do think that when someone, or an animal dies under the 'right' circumstances it might lead to special powers. More like rebirths than sacrifices basically I guess.

Anyway the 'born from the dead' sentence really got to me.

Doesn't bode well for Starks, does it? xP I never made the connection of Jon being born of dead Lyanna and the pups possibly coming out of a dead direwolf. Good one.

But on the Ice and Fire thing... I'm not really buying the whole Starks/Ice/direwolves thing. I mean I do think they've some sort of connection to the Others but I don't see it as once being on the same side like some people suggest (excluding the Night's King, if the stories are true.) I think it would be more of a kill the enemy with their own weapons deal. But that's just me.

I don't know about that, I think it's less literal than it seems. As I said above, sort of rebirth things, special circumstances+death=magic *sparkles* (had to add that, the word magic just adds sparkles to everything I think about)

I'm not too sure about that either, but I think there's more relation between the CotF, the Old Gods, and the Others than it seems. How exactly it will work out, I do not know. I definitely think at least some of the Starks will fight against the Others, I'm not sure about BR though, and he's pulling Bran with him, but that might turn around as well..

[redriver]

REDRIVER: [spoiler ALERT] jUST A speculation here: but the way the weirwood in WF is described, could this ESSENCE, A LIKELY STARK ESSENCE, you speak of somehow be trapped in said tree?

Will some power release this ESSENCE to allow it to return to the dead Starks in their WF crypts?

:dunno:

Will their DIREWOLVES'S ESSENCE be released as well?

See where you have me going?

I'll check for your PM.

I'm pretty sure that someone is going to find something highly significant in the Crypts.Perhaps guided by Bran.

Jojen,ADWD-in reply to Bran's question,"What do the trees remember?"...

"The secrets of the old gods.Truths the First Men knew,now forgotten in Winterfell."

[evita mgfs]

Well done and thanks for kicking things off so nicely.Nice find about the Royce/Stark connection.

snp

his obsidian dagger,he destroyed it's body,but it's essence fled as a cold,white mist.

On a foreshadowing note,I'm going to highlight the first description of the Other-"Tall it was,and gaunt and hard as old bones,with flesh pale as milk."-because a very similar description of a Stark crops up in a subsequent chapter.

:bowdown: :bowdown: REDRIVER: I wish to take issue with one part of your theory. Giving up chewing gum for Lent is the Bomb! It sure beats giving up chocolate and/or McDonald's, yes? [i am teasing, of course. I loved that line- still laughing].

I liked your theory very much, and it was one I was prepared for. Secretly, I think Jon is a goner. He must rise - and his "bones" remember. It will not be the red priestess who will kiss life into him. I think it will be his own brother Bran - and the old gods, who will bring him back, mayhap as a combination of ice and fire. He will rise with white hair and red eyes, the red eyes representing both the old gods and the fire - like Drogon's eyes.

I also think Drogon and Ghost are counterpoint to one another - both have red eyes,they range far from home, they feed themselves, and so on; but otherwise, they are the antithesis of each other" ghost is white like snow; Drogon black as if he had been burned himself, or charred. :ack:

Just ideas! :dunno:

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

:bowdown: :bowdown: REDRIVER: I wish to take issue with one part of your theory. Giving up chewing gum for Lent is the Bomb! It sure beats giving up chocolate and/or McDonald's, yes? [i am teasing, of course. I loved that line- still laughing].

I liked your theory very much, and it was one I was prepared for. Secretly, I think Jon is a goner. He must rise - and his "bones" remember. It will not be the red priestess who will kiss life into him. I think it will be his own brother Bran - and the old gods, who will bring him back, mayhap as a combination of ice and fire. He will rise with white hair and red eyes, the red eyes representing both the old gods and the fire - like Drogon's eyes.

I also think Drogon and Ghost are counterpoint to one another - both have red eyes,they range far from home, they feed themselves, and so on; but otherwise, they are the antithesis of each other" ghost is white like snow; Drogon black as if he had been burned himself, or charred. :ack:

Just ideas! :dunno:

He would look like Bloodraven.

I think it's best to stick to one discussion though --> the chapter and animals, I'm getting a bit lost already, and people who aren't online right now, won't know what's happening to them when they have to plow through all this.

[Little Wing]

He would look like Bloodraven.

I think it's best to stick to one discussion though --> the chapter and animals, I'm getting a bit lost already, and people who aren't online right now, won't know what's happening to them when they have to plow through all this.

I agree. This is what I meant by drowning in chaos...people won't be able to make head from tail (animal simile, yay!) and won't contribute...

I for one would like to stick to the subject and the chapter at hand, straying only little when needed.

[redriver]

I had this problem with the Mormont's Raven thread.I wanted to keep it sequential but posters kept jumping ahead.

Then I thought,just go with it.You can pin it back with the reread chapters.You can try to design threads,but they are organic really and take on a life of their own.

But we do need restraint every now and then!!

ETA.Fairly legit to discuss the Others as they are the new life form in the Prologue.But tomorrow it's on to Chapter 1 and the direwolves.

[kissdbyfire]

Yay! Someone agrees with me on this! I really like the idea of the Others being their own weapons. A for the Others looking similar to a certain "dead" person...yeah, could be foreshadowing...who knows.

Evita, about the CotF and their connection to the Others - it has been discussed on Heresy for some time now - shall we get into all that (wood dancers being the military faction of the Children, that mayhaps became the Others) or stick with the chapter?

I've seen the argument that the WWs armour is similar to that of the CotF, but I must say, I have no idea where this idea comes from. The wood dancers' armour is never described specifically. But the CotF's stealth outfit is described as camouflage: tree barks on the legs, vines, leaves, etc. the WW's is described as a reflective rippling armour, something that looks like ice.

It seems like a very forced argument, IMO. We don't know that the wood dancers are the military faction of the CotF either. We only hear about them when maester Luwin tells Bran and Rickon about the Pact: after the wise of both prevailed, chiefs and heroes (FM) met with greenseers and wood dancers (CotF) on the Isle of Faces. Since we know they were hunters-gatherers and used this 'camouflage' (leaves, barks) it's just as possible that they are simply every CotF who is not a greenseer.

ASoS, Samwell

Sam felt a moment’s relief, until he saw the horse. Hoarfrost covered it like a sheen of frozen sweat, and a nest of stiff black entrails dragged from its open belly. On its back was a rider pale as ice. Sam made a whimpery sound deep in his throat. He was so scared he might have pissed himself all over again, but the cold was in him, a cold so savage that his bladder felt frozen solid. The Other slid gracefully gracefully from the saddle to stand upon the snow. Sword-slim it was, and milky white. Its armor rippled and shifted as it moved, and its feet did not break the crust of the new-fallen snow.

<snip>

The Other&rsquo;s sword gleamed with a faint blue glow. It moved toward Grenn, lightning quick, slashing. When the ice blue blade brushed the flames, a screech stabbed Sam&rsquo;s ears sharp as a needle.

<snip>

The wights had been slow clumsy things, but the Other was light as snow on the wind. It slid away from Paul&rsquo;s axe, armor rippling, and its crystal sword twisted and spun and slipped between the iron rings of Paul&rsquo;s mail, through leather and wool and bone and flesh. It came out his back with a hissssssssssss and Sam heard Paul say, &ldquo;Oh,&rdquo; as he lost the axe. Impaled, his blood smoking around the sword, the big man tried to reach his killer with his hands and almost had before he fell. The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other&rsquo;s grip.

On the Children (from the Citadel, not the wiki):

The Children worked no metal, wearing shirts of woven leaves and bark leg-bindings (I: 616. IV: 10)

[Little Wing]

I've seen the argument that the WWs armour is similar to that of the CotF, but I must say, I have no idea where this idea comes from. The wood dancers' armour is never described specifically. But the CotF's stealth outfit is described as camouflage: tree barks on the legs, vines, leaves, etc. the WW's is described as a reflective rippling armour, something that looks like ice.

It seems like a very forced argument, IMO. We don't know that the wood dancers are the military faction of the CotF either. We only hear about them when maester Luwin tells Bran and Rickon about the Pact: after the wise of both prevailed, chiefs and heroes (FM) met with greenseers and wood dancers (CotF) on the Isle of Faces. Since we know they were hunters-gatherers and used this 'camouflage' (leaves, barks) it's just as possible that they are simply every CotF who is not a greenseer.

ASoS, Samwell

Sam felt a moment’s relief, until he saw the horse. Hoarfrost covered it like a sheen of frozen sweat, and a nest of stiff black entrails dragged from its open belly. On its back was a rider pale as ice. Sam made a whimpery sound deep in his throat. He was so scared he might have pissed himself all over again, but the cold was in him, a cold so savage that his bladder felt frozen solid. The Other slid gracefully gracefully from the saddle to stand upon the snow. Sword-slim it was, and milky white. Its armor rippled and shifted as it moved, and its feet did not break the crust of the new-fallen snow.

<snip>

The Other’s sword gleamed with a faint blue glow. It moved toward Grenn, lightning quick, slashing. When the ice blue blade brushed the flames, a screech stabbed Sam’s ears sharp as a needle.

<snip>

The wights had been slow clumsy things, but the Other was light as snow on the wind. It slid away from Paul’s axe, armor rippling, and its crystal sword twisted and spun and slipped between the iron rings of Paul’s mail, through leather and wool and bone and flesh. It came out his back with a hissssssssssss and Sam heard Paul say, “Oh,” as he lost the axe. Impaled, his blood smoking around the sword, the big man tried to reach his killer with his hands and almost had before he fell. The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other’s grip.

On the Children (from the Citadel, not the wiki):

The Children worked no metal, wearing shirts of woven leaves and bark leg-bindings (I: 616. IV: 10)

I've read it on Heresy, chiefs and heroes met with greenseers and wood dancers. And, yes, of course the armor is different, but maybe they've changed over time, evolved and so did their armor...it's speculation, of course.

I had this problem with the Mormont's Raven thread.I wanted to keep it sequential but posters kept jumping ahead.

Then I thought,just go with it.You can pin it back with the reread chapters.You can try to design threads,but they are organic really and take on a life of their own.

But we do need restraint every now and then!!

ETA.Fairly legit to discuss the Others as they are the new life form in the Prologue.But tomorrow it's on to Chapter 1 and the direwolves.

Oh, I agree, it's just that we've gotten far into it, more than needed, I think. :dunce: We'll see how it goes, sink or swim, haha!

[Alia of the knife]

:bowdown: :bowdown: ALIA OF THE KNIFE: Even though I have met Duncan before, I had to comment. His eyes are so very bright - as he rests on his back, either plotting mischief o preparing to sleep. One of my favorite kitties had his exact coloring, and I wish I had saved my pictures of him on my computer to share. He only had one distinction: my kitty was blind in one eye. I had rescued him from our neighbor the cat lady, who took in all local strays and cared from them, in a good, generous fashion. My kitty had been a Tom who liked to scrap, so she needed someone tocare for him who did not own other cats. So that was I.

Kitty and Princer I were the best of friends. During the day, they spent their time together in the garage - when we went to work, that is. All my cats loved my dogs, and vice versa. If the dogs were very good, they even received daily messages from the kitties.

It is fun to share! Thanks!

He LOVES laying on his back, and he follows "his sun patch" around all day.

Wow, back to work, and I am so behind already on the thread.

I will need to catch up.

[evita mgfs]

AGoT Prologue

POV: Will

Appearing: Gared, Waymar Royce, Will

snip

Will climbs down and finds only the body of Waymar Royce. The Others had vanished. He notes how young he looks in death, and takes his shattered blade, thinking to show it as a proof when he makes back to the Wall.

One more crackpot theory of mine. Later on, when Jon kills a wight, they note that the wight knew where to find the Lord Commander. Melisandre goes on and on about how “the bones remember.” Is it possible that when people become wights, they aren’t entirely “gone”? If so, perhaps Waymar Royce was angry at Will for not coming to help him? Just something to think about.

The chapter ends with Waymar-wight reaching out to Will, his fingers closing around Will’s throat. Gloved in the finest moleskin and sticky with blood, yet the touch is still “icy cold.

ETA: This is my very first re-read summary post. Ever. So I hope I did okay. Be nice, you lot. :blushing:

FROM THE PACK SURVIVES:

Waymar then calls out for Will and asks him if he sees anything. He also asks “Why is it so cold?” Is it the Others that bring the cold with them, or do they follow the cold? Sam wonders about this later, too. Will doesn’t answer.

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took. Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss.

The shadows stick out to me. I immediately think of Homer’s Odyssey and the Book of the Dead where Odysseus holds speak with the shades of the underworld. Furthermore, in order for the dead to have voice, they must drink from a trench Odysseus has dug in the ground, a trench filled with the blood from a sacrificial ram.

Here we have earth mixed with blood to allow speech. Odysseus has to literally “hold back” the dead for they all want to speak with him – they hate life after death, even in the Elysian Fields, the after-life for those who died as heroes. Achilles even tells Odysseus who would rather be a slave on earth than a king of the Elysian Fields.

I think when Martin uses the word “shadow”, he may be suggesting a “shade”. Now, this is NOT always the case – unless all those who cast shadows are deemed to die. That is speculation.

I thought it worth looking up SHADE in the Wiki, pertaining to Greek mythology. I will post what I found as follows:

In literature and poetry, a shade (translating Greek σκι&#940;,^[1] Latin umbra^[2]) can be taken to mean the spirit or ghost of a dead person, residing in the underworld. The image of an underworld where the dead live in shadow is common to the Ancient Near East, in Biblical Hebrew expressed by the term tsalmaveth, literally "death-shadow".^[3] The Witch of Endor in the First Book of Samuel notably conjures the ghost (owb^[4]) of Samuel.

Only select individuals are exempt from the fate of dwelling in shadow after death, ascending to the divine sphere. This is the apotheosis aspired to by kings claiming divinity, and reflected in the veneration of heroes. Plutarch relates how Alexander the Great was inconsolable after the death of Hephaistion up to the moment he received an oracle of Ammon confirming that the deceased was a hero, i.e. enjoyed the status of a divinity.^[5]

Shades appear in Homer's the Odyssey, when Odysseus experiences a vision of Hades, and in the Aeneid, when Aeneas travels to the underworld. In the Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri, many of the dead are similarly referred to as shades (Italian ombra), including Dante's guide, Virgil.

The phrase 'peace to the/thy/her gentle shade' (and endless rest) is sometimes seen in epitaphs, and was used by Alexander Pope in his epitaph for Nicholas Rowe.

[evita mgfs]

I had this problem with the Mormont's Raven thread.I wanted to keep it sequential but posters kept jumping ahead.

Then I thought,just go with it.You can pin it back with the reread chapters.You can try to design threads,but they are organic really and take on a life of their own.

But we do need restraint every now and then!!

ETA.Fairly legit to discuss the Others as they are the new life form in the Prologue.But tomorrow it's on to Chapter 1 and the direwolves.

:agree: REDRIVER: I agree! I thought we would be able to do this, then I break my own darn rule, :dunce: which I borrowed from you, btw. hee hee.

It is an organic process. And much of what we are discovering in our reread, we are interpreting in essence to events to come in the future novels. How can we avoid jumping ahead to those events that JUMP OUT at us?

I am not going to try to police the thread. I feel badly I posted sooo early, but hey, I am a novice at this - and a craven besides. I had to get up the courage to post my summary after rereading The Pack Survive's in a PM.

She was a hard act to follow, :bowdown: believe me.

Thanks for the advice. Since you have done this before, I am beholden to you for good advice. I will forgive myself and not worry about anyone jumping ahead because another's post suddenly inspires them - and BAM! That epiphany happens. That is why I am here, anyways. To learn and to have fun progosticating about what MAY happen! :love:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

The shadows stick out to me.

<snip>

Wonderful research and conclusions as always, Evita.

What sticks out to me the most is Melisandre's comment. I know I've said this before but let me expand.

"Shadow?" Davos felt his flesh prickling. "A shadow is a thing of darkness."

"You are more ignorant than a child, ser knight. There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadow."

I wonder how she would feel if she actually saw an Other, as they're described by Will and Gilly, respectively, as white shadows. One more thing, and perhaps it's reaching but bear with me. BRIGHTER flame casts the DARKEST shadow, and the white shadows have been said to come before and during the long winters and (if it's true) The Long Night.

Soon comes the cold, and the night that never ends.

I know this has been discussed before but I really believe that THIS will be the heart of the Ice and Fire conflict. I don't put much stock in the importance of Drowned God and Storm God (as interesting and well-thought as those theories are). I think it's all about R'hllor and the Old Gods. But who's good and who's bad (if it's that clear at all) I cannot say.

[ARYa_Nym]

... My kitty loved to mouse, and I allowed him out once in a great while - well, more like he sneaked out - because the urge in him was strong to mouse. One time he bought back a baby bird, another time a baby rabbit - and we had a terrible time gettinng him to release his prey. We could not let him out after those travesties. I do not mind the mice, but not little baby birds and bunnies - oh, no! He was a bad, bad kitty. I know it was his instinct, but still - I am not into allowing animals to run free to harm helpless babies, so his mousing freedom was definitely curtailed then on.

I'm trying to prepare some things on cats but what you said here made me think of Arya and her cat associations. Cats sometimes want to show off their kills. Arya did exactly this with Dareon to the KM. Now she didn't leave Dareon's body on the doorstep of the House of Black and White but she proudly announced what she had done to her "master."

[Little Wing]

I'm trying to prepare some things on cats but what you said here made me think of Arya and her cat associations. Cats sometimes want to show off their kills. Arya did exactly this with Dareon to the KM. Now she didn't leave Dareon's body on the doorstep of the House of Black and White but she proudly announced what she had done to her "master."

Ah, ain't it the truth... almost every day I'm presented with some little rodent or bird on the porch :ack: :frown5: Really nice catch (pun intended) as always, Arya-Nym! It's also interesting to note that cats hate water and Arya is all about water... she is a contradiction, holding opposites in her, black and white, like so many other characters.

I wonder how she would feel if she actually saw an Other, as they're described by Will and Gilly, respectively, as white shadows. One more thing, and perhaps it's reaching but bear with me. BRIGHTER flame casts the DARKEST shadow, and the white shadows have been said to come before and during the long winters and (if it's true) The Long Night.

Yes, I remember talking about this in Heresy - it seems like the brightest flame casts the darkest shadow and in turn, in GRRM's world the blackest darkness casts the brightest shadows - the Others ... a need for balance I guess, but if they balance each other out, what happens if they annihilate each other? You need both extremes for balance :dunno: if you do yoga you know :smug: but I digress ....

[Dark Heart]

I always took dead mother pup as a metaphor and symbol of both House Stark and Cat.

House Stark

- Mother DW came south (of the Wall) and died. House Stark came south (of the Neck) and "died".

Both want away from their "natural habitat" and paid for it.

- Mother DW is killed by stag's antler. House Stark trusts House Baratheon and "dies" for it.

- Gray mother DW had 5 "gray" pups. House Stark (of gray dw) have 5 "true born" children.

Cat

- Five gray pups are taking shelter and trying to nurse from a dead mother.

- Sixth white (different) pup is "driven away" and not taking protection from the dead DW.

- The white pup is found in the snow.

- Cat is now Lady Stoneheart = dead mother.

- Lyanna is dead = dead mother.

Another thing;

I was seen Jon's "sacrifice" (omitting himself from the list of Starks, not getting a pup so his siblings will) and finding a "special" pup after it as similar to RL myths of Gods testing people.

You know, the ones where the hero is presented with temptation. If he resist it or even shows willingness to sacrifices his/hers desires for the good of others he/she is rewarded.

But if they are greedy and week they are given nothing or punished.

It's a test of character. Jon only "hears" Ghost after he shown his strength and willingness to put his siblings before him.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I always took dead mother pup as a metaphor and symbol of both House Stark and Cat.

House Stark

- Mother DW came south (of the Wall) and died. House Stark came south (of the Neck) and "died".

Both want away from their "natural habitat" and paid for it.

- Mother DW is killed by stag's antler. House Stark trusts House Baratheon and "dies" for it.

- Gray mother DW had 5 "gray" pups. House Stark (of gray dw) have 5 "true born" children.

Cat

- Five gray pups are taking shelter and trying to nurse from a dead mother.

- Sixth white (different) pup is "driven away" and not taking protection from the dead DW.

- The white pup is found in the snow.

- Cat is now Lady Stoneheart = dead mother.

- Lyanna is dead = dead mother.

Another thing;

I was seen Jon's "sacrifice" (omitting himself from the list of Starks, not getting a pup so his siblings will) and finding a "special" pup after it as similar to RL myths of Gods testing people.

You know, the ones where the hero is presented with temptation. If he resist it or even shows willingness to sacrifices his/hers desires for the good of others he/she is rewarded.

But if they are greedy and week they are given nothing or punished.

It's a test of character. Jon only "hears" Ghost after he shown his strength and willingness to put his siblings before him.

Wow really interesting. it fits in the bit of text I posted earlier as well:

His father tossed the antler to the side and cleansed his hands in the snow. "I'm surprised she lived long enough to whelp," he said. His voice broke the spell.

"Maybe she didn't," Jory said. "I've heard tales . . . maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came."

"Born with the dead," another man put in. "Worse luck."

So perhaps the pups are born 'with the dead', the same as the Stark kids' power awakens when the dead come walking. The same as (probably) Jon Snow was born from a dying Lyanna. The same as Bran opening his third eye in the crypts amidst the dead. The same as Arya's warg powers awake in the House of Black and White, the house of death. The same as Jon's true powers will probably awake now he's either almost dead, or truly dead. Interesting..

Rheagar was also already dead when Jon was born, and Ned dies as well. All Stark children end up being children born from the dead. Jon is also being 'driven' away to the Wall. Cat doesn't want him in WF once Ned is gone, and Ned gives in.

Bran tore his eyes away from the monster. That was when he noticed the bundle in Robb's arms.

Bran calls the dead direwolf a monster, Cat turns into a monster as Lady Stoneheart.

Half-buried in bloodstained snow, a huge dark shape slumped in death.

Bloodstained snow is often compared to the colours of weirwood. Which could be an indication that the wolves are sent by the Old Gods.