redriver Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Speaking of source material,the Kabbalah and other mystical sources speak of the third eye.Also known as the All Seeing Eye which features on your dollar bill.Some arcane schools hold that this third eye is the Pineal gland,a small gland in the brain,which is believed to give access to higher plains/dimensions,if awakened or activated.I'm not saying I'm an adherent of this stuff,but it's pretty widespread in mystical lore,and I've no doubt Martin is aware of it.Scientists admit we use a small proportion of our brains when conscious,more when unconscious.Eclectic as he is,it seems he has tapped into this stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Its plausible certainly, but it doesn't get away from the fact that the two crows and Bryn Blackwood talk and behave quite differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Speaking of source material,the Kabbalah and other mystical sources speak of the third eye.Also known as the All Seeing Eye which features on your dollar bill.Some arcane schools hold that this third eye is the Pineal gland,a small gland in the brain,which is believed to give access to higher plains/dimensions,if awakened or activated.I'm not saying I'm an adherent of this stuff,but it's pretty widespread in mystical lore,and I've no doubt Martin is aware of it.Scientists admit we use a small proportion of our brains when conscious,more when unconscious.Eclectic as he is,it seems he has tapped into this stuff too.I wouldn't necessarily call it eclectic because there a number of manifestations of the "third eye" in different cultures, again presumably going right back to their Indo-European roots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Its basis of the third eye is all indo european. And at the center of that the origin is Odin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 No, I'd disagree there insofar as it probably pre-dates Odin; he's just one manifestation of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Its basis of the third eye is all indo european. And at the center of that the origin is Odin.As Black Crow says,it goes back to proto-religions in the far east originally.The symbol of Horus was an eye.When I say eclectic,I was referring to the variety of sources that Martin draws inspiration from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hmm not quite. And I have proof. If you are referring to the third eye in Indian traditions, remember asuras/aesirhttp://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_1187944.htmpretty much sums up any other chance/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 On the subject of eyes, I've just read again the passages where Qhorin Halfhand discusses what Jon sees through Ghost on the Milkwater and in the next chapter sends Stonesnake off to try to get through to Mormont:"The cold winds are rising. Mormont feared as much. Benjen Stark felt it as well. Dead men walk and the trees have eyes again. Why should we balk at wargs and giants?""Tell Mormont what Jon saw, and how. Tell him that the old powers are waking, that he faces giants and wargs and worse. Tell him that the trees have eyes again"They're interesting in two ways. In the first place because Qhorin recognises what's happening, it indicates a certain familiarity. This isn't something that hasn't happened for thousands of years. Winter is coming and this is what happens...Secondly and perhaps even more significantly, is the way he groups all of them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well, the pineal gland (believed to be the seat of the third eye) is very often depicted like a pine cone (it's supposed to have the same shape) and you have those Summerian reliefs with their "gods" holding huge pine cones like a device they're trying to "plug in" into their subjects - the Summerians. So you see, it certainly predates Odin.It's okay to disagree, but why try forcing your own opinion on others? Your opinion is as good as ours here, no need to make a fuss about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I am going to say this agian. George is drawing a one to one.No, The Proto-Indo religion old religion was originally was north of the Black sea/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 On the subject of eyes, I've just read again the passages where Qhorin Halfhand discusses what Jon sees through Ghost on the Milkwater and in the next chapter sends Stonesnake off to try to get through to Mormont:"The cold winds are rising. Mormont feared as much. Benjen Stark felt it as well. Dead men walk and the trees have eyes again. Why should we balk at wargs and giants?""Tell Mormont what Jon saw, and how. Tell him that the old powers are waking, that he faces giants and wargs and worse. Tell him that the trees have eyes again"They're interesting in two ways. In the first place because Qhorin recognises what's happening, it indicates a certain familiarity. This isn't something that hasn't happened for thousands of years. Winter is coming and this is what happens...Secondly and perhaps even more significantly, is the way he groups all of them together.Hm... could it also mean another Long Night could be coming? On the trees having eyes again - if they were dormant as far as "seeing" goes, could it be that there was a sacrifice made for them to "see" again? Could that have started the whole thing beyond the Wall, including the direwolves being brought for the Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 When referring to the third eye, its specified that it came from sacrifice to gain that eye. There isnt a date to which the Indo-european gods were "created". Scholars assume something because when something is written.Granted how old the Indo european beliefs are, you can bet on Odin being just as old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hmm not quite. And I have proof. If you are referring to the third eye in Indian traditions, remember asuras/aesirhttp://www.abc.net.a...ish_1187944.htmpretty much sums up any other chance/Is this a contest? :fencing:The oldest books in the Bible come from the Torah which are over 3300 years old, but before they were transcribed, the stories were verbally handed down.It is interesting that so many cultures around the world have similar stories, such as a world tree. I wonder how that came about? It's easier to explain the sun-god origins, because they are stories based on the observations of the sun and stars since humans have been in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well, the pineal gland (believed to be the seat of the third eye) is very often depicted like a pine cone (it's supposed to have the same shape) and you have those Summerian reliefs with their "gods" holding huge pine cones like a device they're trying to "plug in" into their subjects - the Summerians. So you see, it certainly predates Odin.It's okay to disagree, but why try forcing your own opinion on others? Your opinion is as good as ours here, no need to make a fuss about it...I'm not sure whom your addressing here.But I really think he's extremely erudite and eclectic in the variety of background material he uses.Any game of "my mythology is better than yours" is futile,imo.I happen to believe that the Liddles are playing a significant role in the story,even now..........and their sigil is three pine cones on white and green!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Is this a contest? :fencing:The oldest books in the Bible come from the Torah which are over 3300 years old, but before they were transcribed, the stories were verbally handed down.It is interesting that so many cultures around the world have similar stories, such as a world tree. I wonder how that came about? It's easier to explain the sun-god origins, because they are stories based on the observations of the sun and stars since humans have been in existence.It comes down from the Indo-European migrations. That is why it is seens o much.On the article im pointing out that what the third eye is representing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well here is the thing, they stated that the wall winterfell was made over 8000 years-probably not. THey have no basis on when these dates occur. Would not there beliefs in sorcerors magic be as jsut as old?I think the idea is that the stories of the first men are too old to give date too, but for argument there is no beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'm not sure whom your addressing here.But I really think he's extremely erudite and eclectic in the variety of background material he uses.Any game of "my mythology is better than yours" is futile,imo.I happen to believe that the Liddles are playing a significant role in the story,even now..........and their sigil is three pine cones on white and green!!No, wasn't addressing you :) I agree completely with the bolded part and that was sort of my point in referring to the Summerians, as just one example that came to mind among many other cultures that new about this.Yes, reading about the Liddles made me think of the pineal gland too... who knows, we'll see... Also, completely agree about GRRM's scope and enormous amount of knowledge...there's so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hmm not quite. And I have proof. If you are referring to the third eye in Indian traditions, remember asuras/aesirhttp://www.abc.net.a...ish_1187944.htmpretty much sums up any other chance/What does that article have to do with India? It's all about Anglia, which is England.Is this a contest? :fencing:The oldest books in the Bible come from the Torah which are over 3300 years old, but before they were transcribed, the stories were verbally handed down.It is interesting that so many cultures around the world have similar stories, such as a world tree. I wonder how that came about? It's easier to explain the sun-god origins, because they are stories based on the observations of the sun and stars since humans have been in existence. Aliens :cool4:There is also a rather reasonable belief that the reason for dragonlike creatures across different cultures is based on a subconscious defensive mechanism from back when mankind was only in Africa, where snakes, certain birds of prey, and lions would be the biggest threats to humanity's survival, and a dragon is kind of a mixture of a snake, a bird, and a lion (I know that creatures such as gryphons and wyverns fit this mixture much better, but, if the thing with dragons here is true, then those might be from the same subconscious source).When referring to the third eye, its specified that it came from sacrifice to gain that eye.There isnt a date to which the Indo-european gods were "created". Scholars assume something because when something is written.Granted how old the Indo european beliefs are, you can bet on Odin being just as old.The origins of the Indo-European gods would most likely predate writing since, as Feather Crystal points out, a lot of the myths that we do know of we have ample evidence for them having started out as oral traditions.I'm not sure whom your addressing here.But I really think he's extremely erudite and eclectic in the variety of background material he uses.Any game of "my mythology is better than yours" is futile,imo.I happen to believe that the Liddles are playing a significant role in the story,even now..........and their sigil is three pine cones on white and green!!Completely agree. Martin scrambles his sources and inspirations, having parts of this and that present in multiple characters (Mel, Sansa, 3EC, Cersei all have elements of the Morrigan; Jon and Dany both have Jesus elements) and having multiple inspirations in a single character (Jaime is Lancelot and he is Tyr, and further complicating it is that Lancel is the one who takes his name from the former and Tyrion takes his name from the latter).Well here is the thing, they stated that the wall winterfell was made over 8000 years-probably not. THey have no basis on when these dates occur. Would not there beliefs in sorcerors magic be as jsut as old?I think the idea is that the stories of the first men are too old to give date too, but for argument there is no beginning.Well, they do have a basis (runes written by the First Men), but yes, i agree with the premise that it is a faulty basis (since the Septons and Maesters likely could neither truly understand the runes nor find anyone who could) and not to be relied upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitzanLeo Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Can someone please give me a small recap of the Morrigan? Just a tiny analysing of the comparison between the Morrigan and BR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I was referring to the Indo-European traditions on the Aesir-asura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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