paddington Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Jarv,From the news I belive the capital is well with in range of the new missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowbinding shoe Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 How do you know that? The only person who subsequently tried was Ariel Sharon, and he had previously had exceptionally burnished hawkish credentials, yet even so his evacuation of the settlers from Gaza was extremely controversial within Israel. And that was only 8,000 settlers in a very small area. I think even he would have found it virtually impossible to replicate this in the West Bank (even if the biggest settlement blocks close to the border are swapped for other areas, as is generally accepted as necessary).If he had tried (and we'll never know if he would have, even if he hadn't suffered that massive stroke) you don't think that hardline settler groups would have done everything in their power to assissinate him? Do you really think Bibi wants to find out what would happen should he try to travel down the same path?This is more a question of political power and going against the will of much of the populace rather than actual fear of life. As I said, the assassination made Israel give its leaders bodyguards and the assassination of Rabin wouldn't be possible today.As for the settlers, no. They wouldn't try to assassinate such a prime minister. They would just protest violently (as they already did during a few evacuations of illegal holdings.) They don't even use the inflammatory propaganda they used back then, certainly not in the central hawkish movements, even when Sharon decided to evacuate Gaza and talked about evacuating the settlements beyond the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samalander Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Would you prefer that they gave spies, milk and cookies?A trial would be nice.Right-o. Because you've never shown your obvious bias here before.Of course I'm biased. Never tried to hide it. Doesn't change the fact that Hamas is still considered a terrorist organization by many countries in the world. They openly and blatantly commit crimes of war (and maybe crimes against humanity as well). This is all a matter of public record, not my "biased" opinion.Then I realized if it hadn't been for Israel, 9/11 would never have happened and the WTC would still be standing.What I really want to write right now will get me kicked off the board.I will go for the tamer option, instead:So it has nothing at all to do with American infidel troops within spitting distance of Mecca?Really? Nothing to do with the US propping up real dictators like the Saudi royal family or Mubarak?Nothing at all to do with the fact that the USA embodies a spirit of freedom which is anathema to those who believe the word of Allah is a single immutable law (with them interperting his will, naturally)?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järv Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Jarv,From the news I belive the capital is well with in range of the new missilesYes, but as far as I have read they have never been fired at the capital until last week. Furthermore, most of them are sucessfully annihilated by the new Israeli rocket interception systems ("Iron Dome" et al.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Lorien,I'd prefer they didn't kill people at all. But I'm sure there was a formal trial with opportunities to challenge their accusors and to see the evidence to be presented in advance of trial with a further opportunity for appeal and rehearing before these folks were executed and dragged through the streets. So, nothing to see here.And I'd prefer that people didn't spy, but my response was aimed at "their own people". If they were spying for Israel, they weren't, "their own people".And you accuse another boarder of engaging in "supposition"? Pot, meet kettle.Supposition perhaps, but one has to wonder why anyone would be angered by us to that degree if it weren't for our support of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowbinding shoe Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 And I'd prefer that people didn't spy, but my response was aimed at "their own people". If they were spying for Israel, they weren't, "their own people".Innocent until proven guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 From the news I belive the capital is well with in range of the new missilesFrom the impact blasts audible from my place this afternoon, I also believe the capital is well within range of the new missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWHamel Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Innocent until proven guilty?That's one of those funny American, and UK ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWHamel Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 They have Chinese rockets that have a 45km range, and Iranian rockets that have a 75km range.And in addition, these weapon systems come with a 6X6 truck, but I've been assured by "The Iceman of the North" that they can't drive across the border into Gaza. Of course how they managed to get a missile four times longer than a man across without driving it, who knows. But it's par for the course on this thread. Like high-volume must be interpreted as impossible. Like there is no open space in Gaza, when Google Maps shows quiet the opposite. That you must have concrete and rebar to build bomb shelters, this should come as a shock to UK citizens who survived the blitz, and rockets of WWII.Oh yes, and my all time favorite "Israel is responsible for the WTC attack." Did the Jews poison your well too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samalander Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Supposition perhaps, but one has to wonder why anyone would be angered by us to that degree if it weren't for our support of Israel.I kindly refer you to post #63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järv Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Supposition perhaps, but one has to wonder why anyone would be angered by us to that degree if it weren't for our support of Israel.That the Serbs hate you guys (and us Germans also) has nothing to do with Israel.Same applies to Cuba, Vietnam and a lot of other examples... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Lorien,And I'd prefer that people didn't spy, but my response was aimed at "their own people".  If they were spying for Israel, they weren't, "their own people".Well I'm qwirky in prefering trials, neutral arbiters, and opportunities for appeal before allowing people to be slaughtered and dragged through the streets whether they are "our people" or not. Zany old me.Frankly, I'm shocked to see a member of this community defending arbitrary non-judical executions without trial for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 A trial would be nice.How about putting every member of the IDF on trial when they kill unarmed civilians?Of course I'm biased. Never tried to hide it. Doesn't change the fact that Hamas is still considered a terrorist organization by many countries in the world. They openly and blatantly commit crimes of war (and maybe crimes against humanity as well). This is all a matter of public record, not my "biased" opinion.And many people considered the Irgun and Haganah to be terrorist organizations. You don't have the moral high ground.What I really want to write right now will get me kicked off the board.I will go for the tamer option, instead:So it has nothing at all to do with American infidel troops within spitting distance of Mecca?Really? Nothing to do with the US propping up real dictators like the Saudi royal family or Mubarak?Nothing at all to do with the fact that the USA embodies a spirit of freedom which is anathema to those who believe the word of Allah is a single immutable law (with them interperting his will, naturally)?!Well, that is a truly fascinating view. Would radical Islam exist to the extent that it does today, if there weren't and entire "infidel" country right in their midst? And can you please explain how our embodiment of freedom is propping up real dictators.The funny part is I knew a guy from Lebanon. Back in the day he was a member of one of the Christian militias and thought the Israelis were the good guys. Now, he thinks that the Saudi royal family and Mubarak are/were stooges of Israel and that Israel will do all it can to keep this turmoil going, because it is to its benefit. BTW, are things a lot better between you and Egypt, with Mubarak out of the way?ETA to correct quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 From the impact blasts audible from my place this afternoon, I also believe the capital is well within range of the new missiles.You can hear impact blasts in Tel Aviv all the way over in Jerusalem? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWHamel Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 You can hear impact blasts in Tel Aviv all the way over in Jerusalem? ;)If you can look at a map, it's fairly easy to tell that if they can hit Jerusalem, they can hit Tel Aviv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järv Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Tel Aviv was hit for the first time since the 1991 Gulf War, and rockets were aimed at Jerusalem. The Palestinians rockets have killed four Israeli civilians - three of them in a direct hit on a home in Kiryat Malachi - one Israeli soldier, and at least two Palestinian civilians. By 19 November, over 252 Israelis had been physically injured in rocket attacks, and thirty more had been treated for acute stress reaction. Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system has intercepted at least 342 of rockets fired into Israel, 664 rockets have landed in Israeli territory. That certainly is a negative development for people living in the largest cities, after 20 years of saftey from air attacks. On the other hand, Iron Dome seems to be quite effective. (Note that the system intentionally lets some rockets through if it is sure that they will not hit a city. thus, the success rate is much higher than 342 : 664)Why negotiate if you can opt for a further improvement of that system?Edit: quote from wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samalander Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 1) How about putting every member of the IDF on trial when they kill unarmed civilians?2) Well, that is a truly fascinating view. Would radical Islam exist to the extent that it does today, if there weren't and entire "infidel" country right in their midst? 3) And can you please explain how our embodiment of freedom is propping up real dictators.1) If they kill unarmed civilians deliberately, we do it ourselves.2) Yes, yes it would. Most of the perpetrators of 9/11 were Saudis, not Palestinians. Their war cry wasn't "Free Palestine", but rather "Death to America".3) You are crazy that way. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Salamander,It should be readily apparent that we will never agree and that should this conversation go on, the likelihood of us getting really offensive, will increase exponentially. There is no further point in our conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 You can hear impact blasts in Tel Aviv all the way over in Jerusalem? ;)Iceman, honest to god, I don't remember ever saying anything like this, but I think you're a cunt right now. (probably deserve a ban here, that's ok. I really needed to say that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Iceman, honest to god, I don't remember ever saying anything like this, but I think you're a cunt right now.Can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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