Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Ygritte was already having a hard time getting Jon to accept that what he's been told is a load of crap.She told him the story about 5 minutes after he captured her, which is why it has to be important - and as told. Qohorin and the others had already heard it before as well, and Qohorin is the one who wanted Jon along because he was a Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoh Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 if the wall was built to imprison stark loyalists why didn't the Thenns have a warmer welcome for jon? because of him being a true stark.or why didn't they kill him on sight? cuz he is a stark bastard called jon/they believe him to be a desendent of the bastard that cast them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 She told him the story about 5 minutes after he captured her, which is why it has to be important - and as told. Qohorin and the others had already heard it before as well, and Qohorin is the one who wanted Jon along because he was a StarkBut, he really is a Stark. I'm not denying that. He's a Stark because Lyanna is his mother.If King Jon Stark proves to be a Jon Snow, then the Stark line wasn't really "true" until Bael the bard restores the lineage. Kings blood really is important. *sigh* Something is bound to come along that will turn you to my thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 oh i assumed the corpses that "moved camp" were the watchers, didn't notice the laughter part. on a side-note where did the corpses go?No the lot who scragged Ser Waymar and booby-trapped his body were definitely white shadows.As to what happens to wights "afterwards", it looks as if they're just left to wander aimlessly like that bunch who drifted into the village where Varamyr had been hiding. This may of course be part of the trouble. So far as we have seen so far there's only a handful of Others/Sidhe, raising the dead to make up the numbers and then turning them loose as a public nuisance. There may not be an invasion going on at all, just all these wights shambling about in the wake of a wild hunt which has used and discarded them.ETA: spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As Little Wing quoted above, there are six white walkers in the prologue. One does the fighting, five watch.There are six direwolf pups. One is apart and has the eyes open.There are six Stark children. One is a bastard.Coincidence?Maybe there are only six White Walkers. One for every Stark child?OMG, Sam killed Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 if the wall was built to imprison stark loyalists why didn't the Thenns have a warmer welcome for jon? because of him being a true stark.or why didn't they kill him on sight? cuz he is a stark bastard called jon/they believe him to be a desendent of the bastard that cast them out.Perhaps the Thenns came from a "grudgingly-Stark" loyalist that were angry when they lost and were cast out?If Kings blood is that important, then perhaps Jon Snow is actually "Stark" on both sides. Wouldn't that be ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 OMG, Sam killed Robb.Laughed out loud!There's Craster's sons to consider, but their numbers could be very slim anyway, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 if the wall was built to imprison stark loyalists why didn't the Thenns have a warmer welcome for jon? because of him being a true stark.or why didn't they kill him on sight? cuz he is a stark bastard called jon/they believe him to be a desendent of the bastard that cast them out.As you'll have gathered I'm not in agreement with Feather on this one. What we've discussed before in regard to the curious degree of respect apparently accorded the Starks beyond the Wall is that their role as guarantors of the pact (or whatever) not only meant they were client kings of the Sidhe but were responsible for/protectors of those beyond the Wall in the realm of Ice proper - as witnessed by the alliance with Joruman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoh Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Perhaps the Thenns came from a "grudgingly-Stark" loyalist that were angry when they lost and were cast out? :agree: but i just thought there reaction to jon would be more volatile whether positively or negatively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As Little Wing quoted above, there are six white walkers in the prologue. One does the fighting, five watch.There are six direwolf pups. One is apart and has the eyes open.There are six Stark children. One is a bastard.Coincidence?Maybe there are only six White Walkers. One for every Stark child?OMG, Sam killed Robb.The seeming co-incidence has been noted, and there may be something more to it than that. The Direwolves themselves regard Ghost as different and there is the fact that Bran named his Summer, which is of course the opposite of Winter. There may be factions at work here and while there were indeed five for the five lawful sons and daughters of Winterfell, the sixth one may have been slipped into the package, which may be why Jon is tending to Ice rather than Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoh Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As you'll have gathered I'm not in agreement with Feather on this one. What we've discussed before in regard to the curious degree of respect apparently accorded the Starks beyond the Wall is that their role as guarantors of the pact (or whatever) not only meant they were client kings of the Sidhe but were responsible for/protectors of those beyond the Wall in the realm of Ice proper - as witnessed by the alliance with Joruman.wildlings respect power, i think that respect came from the time of the long night cuz the starks were wargs and the last hero was presumably "the" stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The seeming co-incidence has been noted, and there may be something more to it than that. The Direwolves themselves regard Ghost as different and there is the fact that Bran named his Summer, which is of course the opposite of Winter. There may be factions at work here and while there were indeed five for the five lawful sons and daughters of Winterfell, the sixth one may have been slipped into the package, which may be why Jon is tending to Ice rather than Earth.I think there were instances where we saw the direwolves looking to Ghost as their alpha. Off the top of my head, Nymeria, who we know is the leader of her own pack, instinctively follows Ghost when he goes after Jon even though Arya stays put... there are more examples I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Laughed out loud!There's Craster's sons to consider, but their numbers could be very slim anyway, I guess...That's the point of what I'm saying about there perhaps not being an invasion at all - or at least not in the conventional sense. We saw that handful in the prologue, the white walkers seen by the shore near Eastwatch don't sound as if there were many, and nor do the white shadows in the woods which Mormont also grumbles about a little later and the cold northern spirits at Moat Cailin. At the Fist we saw just one. Just how many sons Craster gave up we don't know, although even the first of them must have been given up to somebody, the fact that its his sons who are expected suggests once again that there aren't too many of them.All of which comes back to what I suggested earlier, that we're not seeing an invading army, but a handful, either trooping out of Faerie for one purpose or another, of even just a wild hunt, raising and then discarding wights as required and that its these masterless wights drifting about who are giving the impression of an invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I think there were instances where we saw the direwolves looking to Ghost as their alpha. Off the top of my head, Nymeria, who we know is the leader of her own pack, instinctively follows Ghost when he goes after Jon even though Arya stays put... there are more examples I'm sure.Nymeria always defers to Ghost. There is a single reference to Greywind running with Ghost at his heels or some such. However, even considering this, I recall their being chatter from wolf point of view about ghost standing apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Nymeria always defers to Ghost. There is a single reference to Greywind running with Ghost at his heels or some such. However, even considering this, I recall their being chatter from wolf point of view about ghost standing apart.Oh, I agree about him standing apart even from wolf POV, it ties in nicely with everything, really - Jon being the Stark children's cousin and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Nymeria always defers to Ghost. There is a single reference to Greywind running with Ghost at his heels or some such. However, even considering this, I recall their being chatter from wolf point of view about ghost standing apart.Storm of Swords: Bran 1Bran in Summer: He had a pack as well, once. Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside... Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoh Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 i think the wolves are mimicking their owners social status. think arya and jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning One Arise Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Storm of Swords: Bran 1Bran in Summer: He had a pack as well, once. Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside... Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.I have always wondered about this line right here. Does it refer to the fact that Ghost is Jon's (a bastard who would have no official voice in the family), or does it refer to a different gift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The seeming co-incidence has been noted, and there may be something more to it than that. The Direwolves themselves regard Ghost as different and there is the fact that Bran named his Summer, which is of course the opposite of Winter. There may be factions at work here and while there were indeed five for the five lawful sons and daughters of Winterfell, the sixth one may have been slipped into the package, which may be why Jon is tending to Ice rather than Earth. Not entirely related, but do we have any proof that CotF have/can mate with humans?To me it looks like they can't. But we are told the Others do. In my understanding that rules out the White Walkers being transformed Wood Dancers. On the other hand the Others lay with wildling women and sire terrible half-human children. Since skinchangers and wargs are supposed to be bad things and we have more skinchangers among the wildlings it seems logical that the skinchangers are the terrible half-human children.We only have male skinchangers AFAIK. Following that train of thought Bael the Bard was an Other who implanted the skinchanging into House Stark. So it is a possibility the ability has been with House Stark for a long time and the direwolf pups triggered it. Six white walkers. Six direwolf pups. Six Stark children. The north is evil.Daenerys always has three things. Trinity. Have we discussed numbers in heresy yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh, I agree about him standing apart even from wolf POV, it ties in nicely with everything, really - Jon being the Stark children's cousin and all that...Jon is not a cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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