Is Daario meant to be an unlikable character?

[Florina Laufeyson]

I dont think Daario was written to be unlikable, but i also dont get the impression hes there to be the "cool" guy. Hes there to appeal to Dany and i think hes there to appeal to her alone. That, and some of the things he says are clearly trying to light a fire under her ass so to speak. Hes attracted to her not just because of her beauty, but also because he finds her strength and position to be really hot. He even tries to remind her just who she is.

[Wun Drop]

Darkstar is named after a Grateful Dead song.... kids today like rock & roll... he's cool! :)

[total1402]

My main pet peeve with Daario and to some extent Darkstar is that they seem like a relatively elder authors idea of the "cool" character that would appeal to late teens early twenty something market. It feels like something shoehorned in that doesn't fit with the story.

Like GRRM's sex scenes they are so jarring they take you straight out of the story.

Not sure I really understand what you mean by cool. Darkstar, I can see the whole dark mysterious thing going on and you get why Arriane wants this guy. But Daario is a peacock. Hes really not cool and I struggle to see the appeal. He strikes me as an attempt at a flambuoyant rakish rogue. The trouble is that, for me, that archtype tends towards being very effete and this undermines it being considered badass. All the high fashion, pomp, gestures, superficiality and such is extremely unmasculine unless handled with tact. Connors dad off Assasians Creed 3 is what I would consider a good way of using this archtype well. You know hes a badass, but he is still slightly tongue in cheek and the whole English gentleman rake in the garb. But it has to be muted. Daario is just plain bad because its a shameless portrayel of that archtype that crosses into ridiculous.

As you've probably already inferred. Characters like Victarion are more what I would call badass characters that appeal to the teen n early twenties group. I mean, he almost has Darth Vader or Bane moments on that ship. When he got that guy with his burning arm then slammed him to a mast crushing his throat for daring to make fun of him I just thought "Well, we've got us a badass here!"

[straits]

Hard to believe that anyone wants Jon/Dany by now. I would sooner ship Jon with a tree (not Bran) than with ... anyone, really. The two are so different that it's stupid. Maybe their storylines are parallels of struggle in leadership, but they just don't click. If anything, Jon would prefer someone like Asha. And Dany, someone like, well, Daario.

My main pet peeve with Daario and to some extent Darkstar is that they seem like a relatively elder authors idea of the "cool" character that would appeal to late teens early twenty something market. It feels like something shoehorned in that doesn't fit with the story.

Like GRRM's sex scenes they are so jarring they take you straight out of the story.

What don't you like about paragraphs describing Arianne's large dark nipples? :lmao:

Renly is described by Catlyn as Roberts ghost (in his prime) so he is a much more physically impressive man than depicted in the series. Also, Loras was a younger squire for Renly; they weren't actually of an age with similar physicality as depicted in the show. he was probably trained to be a knight like most but saw no wars himself.

The problem here is that eastern culture in aSoIaF fosters duelists. Westerosi culture fosters military units. I agree that Daario's head count could easily be as fake as his tooth and hair, but assuming him to be a proper sellsword, he has a chance against Renly, an unblooded noble.

[total1402]

Hard to believe that anyone wants Jon/Dany by now. I would sooner ship Jon with a tree (not Bran) than with ... anyone, really. The two are so different that it's stupid. Maybe their storylines are parallels of struggle in leadership, but they just don't click. If anything, Jon would prefer someone like Asha. And Dany, someone like, well, Daario.

I'd hate it myself but it could an opposites attract sort of thing.

[brashcandy]

Hard to believe that anyone wants Jon/Dany by now. I would sooner ship Jon with a tree (not Bran) than with ... anyone, really. The two are so different that it's stupid. Maybe their storylines are parallels of struggle in leadership, but they just don't click. If anything, Jon would prefer someone like Asha. And Dany, someone like, well, Daario.

Please send me that advance copy of TWOW you're reading.

[Valyrian Spoon]

@ Total 1402 I can really see your point about the relative coolness of characters and you are correct the entire peacock dripping with attitude thing is precisely the reason it fails when stacked up to other characters who we know are killers Vic, Jaime, Selmy etc.

What don't you like about paragraphs describing Arianne's large dark nipples? :lmao:

Well at least those paragraphs aren't as bad as "Myrish Swamps" or "Purple headed ship's masts" or what ever else I'm trying to forget I ever read with a staight face.

[total1402]

Like GRRM's sex scenes they are so jarring they take you straight out of the story.

There are times where it reminds me of some really bad fanfaction I read. I just assume we're meant to laugh.

[Tagganaro]

I definitely think Daario is meant to be unlikable. I mean, what could anyone possibly find "likable" about the guy save for the fact that he's so unlikable and doesn't give a crap about it.

Daario to me comes across more as a thematic plot device, an externalization of Dany's darker impulses.

I just wish there was more of a show, not tell mentality with regards to him. I think he'd be a much more successful badass if, you know, we actually got to see him do badass things. Rather than have him just brag about doing them to Dany. To compare him to Dany's other "suitors", I think Victarion is a much more successful badass character because we actually get to see him be a badass, we don't just hear him brag about it.

[straits]

Please send me that advance copy of TWOW you're reading.

I don't think that any form of textual evidence would testify that two characters click. Unless GRRM specifically writes that. On top of that, I believe that Dany craves attention that Jon would never give. He's taken the role of Man on a Mission. It's just my opinion.

[straits]

I definitely think Daario is meant to be unlikable. I mean, what could anyone possibly find "likable" about the guy save for the fact that he's so unlikable and doesn't give a crap about it.

Daario to me comes across more as a thematic plot device, an externalization of Dany's darker impulses.

I just wish there was more of a show, not tell mentality with regards to him. I think he'd be a much more successful badass if, you know, we actually got to see him do badass things. Rather than have him just brag about doing them to Dany. To compare him to Dany's other "suitors", I think Victarion is a much more successful badass character because we actually get to see him be a badass, we don't just hear him brag about it.

But 'bad boys' are peacocks, and Vicky follows a different church of Masculinity than Daario.

[total1402]

I don't think that any form of textual evidence would testify that two characters click. Unless GRRM specifically writes that. On top of that, I believe that Dany craves attention that Jon would never give. He's taken the role of Man on a Mission. It's just my opinion.

Or Dany could be frustrated by his lack of attention. She has probably gotton very used to men fawning at the sight of her and if Jon is desirable it could be something she simply isn't used to. A man she wants but who doesn't want her back.

I mean I always wonder how Dany would react if Jorah met Lynesse again and suddenly wasn't as interested in her. Might get a bit jealous. Be lol worthy at any rate if she did. But Jorahs probs gonna die Battle of Fire I imagine.

[TheFlayedMan]

I certainly hope so.

I think GRRM just tried to make him memorable. Characters from Essos, particlaurly Ghiscari, tend to be lack interesting, notable personalities. Daario, as one of the more central characters in Dany's storyline, had to be unique from the other annoying, growling foreigners.

[brashcandy]

I don't think that any form of textual evidence would testify that two characters click. Unless GRRM specifically writes that. On top of that, I believe that Dany craves attention that Jon would never give. He's taken the role of Man on a Mission. It's just my opinion.

Wait wait. I love Jon to bits, but last time I checked he wasn't exactly capable of being on any kind of mission. Dany on the other hand... Look, I understand it's your opinion, but I've never quite understood this idea that people are only attracted to a certain kind of person, and that's that. It isn't true to real life, and it's not what we've seen in Martin's literature. As for Dany craving attention, since when? She's currently the rider of a ferocious dragon and is known as the most beautiful woman in the world. What attention does she need and why would she need it from Jon?

[total1402]

I certainly hope so.

I think GRRM just tried to make him memorable. Characters from Essos, particlaurly Ghiscari, tend to be lack interesting, notable personalities. Daario, as one of the more central characters in Dany's storyline, had to be unique from the other annoying, growling foreigners.

I don't know. I quite liked the Shaveplate (Shakaz?) as a character. He struck me as a redoubtable, reliable, militeristic and sober guy; unlike almost every other Ghiscari. A Baibers type character.

[straits]

Wait wait. I love Jon to bits, but last time I checked he wasn't exactly capable of being on any kind of mission. Dany on the other hand... Look, I understand it's your opinion, but I've never quite understood this idea that people are only attracted to a certain kind of person, and that's that. It isn't true to real life, and it's not what we've seen in Martin's literature. As for Dany craving attention, since when? She's currently the rider of a ferocious dragon and is known as the most beautiful woman in the world. What attention does she need and why would she need it from Jon?

Exactly, and she's aware of this. So if Jon doesn't actively woo her, like every other guy she was interested in did (among others she did not like), she's not suddenly going to find him irresistible, is she?

It's not that Dany would repulse him, (though I feel as though he wouldn't like her, irrelevant) I just think Jon will hold to his vows. And, like you said, why would she need attention from Jon? Why does she need Jon? They don't need to be together.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

I certainly hope so.

I think GRRM just tried to make him memorable. Characters from Essos, particlaurly Ghiscari, tend to be lack interesting, notable personalities. Daario, as one of the more central characters in Dany's storyline, had to be unique from the other annoying, growling foreigners.

I thought the Shavepate was one other very unique, memorable Ghiscari character. He has a distinctive look/personality and his own militia. Hope he ends up ruler of Slaver's Bay, but maintains a brutal, authoritarian, anti-slavery regime enforced by a massively expanded army of Brazen Beasts (consisting overwhelmingly of freedmen soldiers), kinda like a Stalin to Dany's Leninism.

Daario belongs on Jersey Shore, but he gave Dany some very good advice. But if he survives the Battle of Meeren, he won't last a second after meeting Victarion.

I don't know. I quite liked the Shaveplate (Shakaz?) as a character. He struck me as a redoubtable, reliable, militeristic and sober guy; unlike almost every other Ghiscari. A Baibers type character.

:agree: Good comparison to Sultan Baibars. Apart from the Shavepate, the Ghiscari as a whole are cartoonish, clownish, caricatures.

[brashcandy]

Exactly, and she's aware of this. So if Jon doesn't actively woo her, like every other guy she was interested in did (among others she did not like), she's not suddenly going to find him irresistible, is she?

There is nothing in the text to validate this. If anything, Dany has actually shown that she prefers to be the one choosing her partners. Like any human being, one wants to be desired, but she's by no means some preening filly needing to have her vanities attended to.

It's not that Dany would repulse him, (though I feel as though he wouldn't like her, irrelevant) I just think Jon will hold to his vows. And, like you said, why would she need attention from Jon? Why does she need Jon? They don't need to be together.

She may very well not need him, but he looks to be in need of her - or at least of her dragons. And it's fine if you don't see them together, but stating that she isn't Jon's type or vice versa isn't really convincing. Lots of things impact compatibility and people are capable of having more than one type. And I'd argue that they both possess essential qualities which they would find appealing in each other.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I agree with KittyKats with regard to Daarios being about encouraging Daenerys to embrace her dragon. But, I felt a story about turning aside love for duty would require some degree of sympathy for the relationship in question. Which is hard to do given how Daario is described and related to us.

I think Dany's love vs duty theme in the last novel was not so much about not being able to marry Daario (that's not much of a sacrifice anyway, she can still take him as a lover) - more about having to lock away the dragons and not taking the first opportunity (Xaro's offer of a fleet, if she teams up with him and forget the abolutionist agenda) to go home to Westeros. I'm sufficiently emotionally invested in her relationship with her dragons, and her longing for a home, to feel the extent of the sacrifice. It works for me.

Daario's function is a different one - not so much symbolizing the sacrifice, but the reluctance to sacrifice, defiance at the thought of having to sacrifice.

I imagine Daario to be quite physically beautiful (once you get used to his fashion sense; bit of an acquired taste, but still... einen schönen Menschen entstellt nichts; true beauty cannot be tarnished) - he's athletic, he's young, evidently well-groomed, no particular assymmetries mentionned in the text. He can probably make the ridiculous beard work for him. He's looking fine and he's passionate; that should be sufficient qualification for a fling. Dany doesn't necessarily want to have his babies.

So I can see where she's coming from.

Of course, I wouldn't be shipping Dany and Daario. He's the man of the hour, no the man of her life; there's zero longterm potential. I've never seen anyone ship Dany and Daario, and I don't think we're supposed to. It's not supposed to be a love story; it's Dany trying to compensate herself for all the sacrifices she has to make in other areas to meet her duties - the one iberty she allows herself. Bedding Daario is her small gesture of defiance.

The appropriate parallell is probably not Jon and Ygritte (because damn it, those two could have worked! I was rather emotionally invested in them. Ygritte was Jon's Drogo, not his Daario), but rather Tyrion and Shae. Shae is not portrayed as likeable either, and it's fairly hard to see her appeal beyond the physical beauty. Yet there's markedly less handwringing on this boards about what Tyrion could have possibly seen in her. Some might argue that's because Tyrion spends less time mooning over her, but I wouldn't be so sure that an actual analysis of the text bears that impression out. I had the impression that Tyrion spent quite a bit more time fussing over Shae than Dany spent swooning for Daario.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Whoa! you mean "Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night" didn't make you swoon? :eek:

Gagged, yes. Swooned, no. lol! If we want to talk about a cartoonish character...