Jaqen H'ghar

[Stark Vengeance]

People need to get off this wishful thinking that Syrio is Jaqen. It adds up to zero, anyhow.

It simply doesn't match the timeline. This has been picked apart in other threads.

The major mystery with Jaqen is the tie between WHY Jaqen got himself locked up in KL, and WHAT he is seeking in Oldtown. The commonality of speech between the two is moot. In fact, it really isn't all that similar. Syrio was bragadocious and bold. Jaqen is more respectful and reserved.

Meryn Trant killed Syrio outright. Even D&D acknowledge that with his screaming in the episode. He was left with a splintered sword facing Ser Meryn who, shall we say, lacks empathy.

[The Old Tongue]

It simply doesn't match the timeline. This has been picked apart in other threads.

Meryn Trant killed Syrio outright. Even D&D acknowledge that with his screaming in the episode. He was left with a splintered sword facing Ser Meryn who, shall we say, lacks empathy.

The timeline does match, unless you're watching the show.The show played everything out in almost one scene. In the book, Arya spends quite some time in Flea Bottom before Ned's slain. Even if the producers of the show acknowledged that the scream was from Syrio it doesn't mean anything when talking about the books. We've seen characters die in the show who still live past ADWD. Saying Syrio is dead won't have much consequence to the show's adaptation.

What I don't understand is someone answering a speculation with an absolute response that is unproven. We don't witness Trant kill Syrio outright. The timeline does line up in the book. If someone chooses not to believe the theory, more power to him or her, but right now no one can absolutely confirm it except for GRRM. Something tells me he won't, though.

Hell, I could care either way. These theories are all I've got until this series is wrapped up.

[mormont]

while I'm being speculative... was Syrio's head ever mentioned to be on a spike along with all the other Stark retinue?

No, but that means nothing. The heads are never seen by any POV character who'd even met Syrio: only Sansa and Tyrion. And we're told on a number of occasions that spiked heads aren't easy to recognise anyway.

A Braavosi dance instructor would not have been high on the list of people the Kingsguard were out to execute

A Septa presumably wouldn't have been high on the list either, yet she was killed. And a 'dancing master' who killed or maimed five guards and assisted in Arya's escape - incidentally, the last man to spend time with her before that escape - would have been extremely high on the list of people Cersei would be desperate to question in her pursuit of Arya. If he too had escaped, we'd have heard about it: Cersei would be tearing the city apart to find him, as well as Arya.

So if Trant somehow failed at killing Syrio, I'm sure he wouldn't admit to losing Arya and her instructor. We've seen that Meryn's not a very honorable man.

Except that we know that he did admit this.

as for Yoren walking into the Black Cell: I wasn't implying this happened as Yoren obviously didn't pick out Rorge and Biter. At least I hope he didn't. He came there for recruits and took whatever was given to him. I'm sure the Black Cell prisoners were brought out to him by Rugen.

This still has the problem of Ned's order being honoured at a time when he is in the Cells himself. That seems extraordinarily unlikely. You're right that Yoren didn't 'pick out' prisoners, by the way - he simply took everyone who was in the Black Cells. Those three were the only prisoners there.

[The Dragon King]

After some re-read, I think the sequence of events could be:

1. Syrio trains Arya in a way that reminds some drills of the FM.

2. Jaqen, Rorge and Biter are im prison.

3. Ned allows Yoren to taken them away.

4. KG enters Hand's Tower and Syrio defends Arya's escape.

5. When he considers she's far enough, Syrio yields.

6. He's just a part-time trainer, so he manages to be spared, but he's sent to prison.

7. Once in jail, he kills Jaqen, takes his face, and forces Biter to eat the face (as he started to do to Brienne)

8. Syrio/Jaqen, Rorge and Biter are taken by Yoren.

9. Eventually he hands the iron coin to Arya.

10. The FM moves to Oldtown to mind his business

Some questions:

Was Syrio trying to hire Arya?

If yes, why?

If no, it was just a lid, then:

What was he doing in KL?

Did he decide to hire Ayra when he saw she was a natural born killer? :devil:

I think this is the easiest explanation.

Why throw Syrio in jail? He kinda dangerous, why not just kill him?

4. How about Syrio defends Arya's escape.

5. When he thinks she's escaped he leaves, then takes the face and uniform of a gold cloak, and looks for her around KL.

6. He attends Ned's execution, knowing that Arya will be there, and spots her under the statue and also sees Yoren, grab her.

7. He then follows the NW group, waits till they have an especially long day when they're all dead tired.

8. He then picks the lock, or just swipes the keys from a passed out Yoren, kills the original Jaqen, takes his face and then dumps the body a few hundred yards from the camp.

My scenario is easier.

[the rightful king]

Theory:

I think this all links into euron greyjoy think about it, It was hinted that he used a faceless man to kill balon and now whos to say he couldn't buy more? maybe hes using jaqen to steal information or maybe hes euron is planning somthing bigger.

i guess we wont knwo whats happening in the citadel until TWOW comes out i guess but still its fun to come up with theories

[siknes]

Jaqen's goals are clearly centered on the Citadel/maesters, since after he is freed from his debt to Arya he immediately sets off there (he is the Alchemist who kills Pate and steals his identity). Whatever he was doing in King's Landing, it would likely be linked to that. There are theories he's on assignment to find a way to kill the dragons, but that doesn't make sense timeline wise, since he was grabbed by Yoren out of the cells right around the time the dragons were born. He may be in Oldtown to steal information, but this isn't really what the Faceless Men do, so unless he's gone rouge, there's really no way to tell what his deal is.

However he wound up in the black cells, Rorge knew enough about him to be afraid of him, which is saying a lot. Maybe Jaqen was involved in similar criminal elements of King's Landing in his pursuits, and wound up getting arrested through those. Not wanting to reveal his skills, he went along with the charade until he owed Arya, then stayed around to pay her the three deaths.

Once and for all, Syrio is dead. The Lannisters/Kingsguard/City Watch were butchering all Stark men, even those who put up no fight. They're not just going to arrest one of the guys who was fighting back (and had just humiliated four gold cloaks and challenged a Kingsguard knight).

I remember no quote of Syrios' demise in the writing(GRRM has said Syrio is dead, but then again JH told Arya he is Jaquen no more, when they leave each other) If Rorge is afraid of Jaquen it may because he witnessed a face change, and knows he's an assassin. As far as Quotes Cersie says something about The KingsGuard guy not getting the little wolf girl, thwarted by a dancing master. There was nothing about dancing master's demise, they would have kept him to find out where she would go, mayhaps.

[Lord of 311]

People need to get off this wishful thinking that Syrio is Jaqen. It adds up to zero, anyhow.

It simply doesn't match the timeline. This has been picked apart in other threads.

The major mystery with Jaqen is the tie between WHY Jaqen got himself locked up in KL, and WHAT he is seeking in Oldtown. The commonality of speech between the two is moot. In fact, it really isn't all that similar. Syrio was bragadocious and bold. Jaqen is more respectful and reserved.

Meryn Trant killed Syrio outright. Even D&D acknowledge that with his screaming in the episode. He was left with a splintered sword facing Ser Meryn who, shall we say, lacks empathy.

First off, I dont believe Jaqen is Syrio but if you are gonna throw in D&Ds acknowledment of this, well they leave it pretty vague. Yes, there is a scream, followed by the sound of STEEL dropping. As you just said yourself, Syrio had a wooden splintered sword. Now Im not arguing one way or another but I dont think you can use this as an argument.

[TheGreatStallion]

Hello everyone ! When I first heard the Syrio/Jaqen theory I didn't believe it at all but with all the facts people brought in I had some doubts. But what stroke me most was a scene of HBO GOT first season episode 6 between Arya AND Syrio that I noticed only recently:

Syrio:"Do you pray to the gods ?"

Arya:"the Old and The new"

Syrio: " There is only one God and His Name is Death"

Soo it appears our friend Syrio is also a believer of Him Of Many Faces..another Clue ?

[corbon]

Hello everyone ! When I first heard the Syrio/Jaqen theory I didn't believe it at all but with all the facts people brought in I had some doubts. But what stroke me most was a scene of HBO GOT first season episode 6 between Arya AND Syrio that I noticed only recently:

Syrio:"Do you pray to the gods ?"

Arya:"the Old and The new"

Syrio: " There is only one God and His Name is Death"

Soo it appears our friend Syrio is also a believer of Him Of Many Faces..another Clue ?

No, he's not, or rather, there is no evidence that he is. Thats just a show addition, much like him having hair and not being old.

[TheGreatStallion]

No, he's not, or rather, there is no evidence that he is. Thats just a show addition, much like him having hair and not being old.

:agree: Agreed, there is no such thing in the books, but didn't george Martin say that there may be clues in the show and in a certain way both of the show and the books are completing themselves

I'm just saying it is a bit strange that they mention "one God" and that this god is "DEATH" especially when you know the flollowing events (ways and believes of house BW..)

That said I think we will eventually know in 5-10 years :crying: !

[A wilding]

When I first heard the Syrio/Jaqen theory I didn't believe it at all but with all the facts people brought in I had some doubts.

"Facts"?

[TheGreatStallion]

"Facts"?

Forgive my English (it is not my native language ) facts may not be appropriate..I am just referring to all the arguments (in favor of a Syrio/jaquen theory) people came up with in a many topic including this one ..

[A wilding]

No problem. To me that is precisely the point, we hear lots of arguments, but they are based on shaky foundations.

[emeraldarcher]

Syrio declared himself the first sword of Braavos not a Stark, that could be what kept him alive. Then getting put in the cells with three dangerous criminals he took the face of one and they other two were scared after.

Which is possible as he can glam himself up and makes him more likely to want to help Arya.

:)

They very well may have kept him alive if they thought he could help in finding Arya (The real prize) Ned's execution was weeks after the masacre so the timing could work.

[Lummel]

They very well may have kept him alive if they thought he could help in finding Arya (The real prize) Ned's execution was weeks after the masacre so the timing could work.

The timing doesn't work because the Three from the Black Cells were handed over to Yoren before Cersei started her coup. See AFFC, Jaime's conversation with Longwaters.