Why Stannis wouldn't be a good king

[Spotted Cat]

body mutilation was required then?

why couldnt he give the man a sack of gold to go away. its not like stannis never break the law

Yes, he was tempted to kill his innocent nephew. Selyse and Melisandre sang endlessly "Your Grace, royal blood, wake the stone dragon" or "my lord husband, purify our marriage bed, I'll give you sons", Davos was'nt there and... Edric Storm played with Shireen, had lessons with maester Pylos, sword training with someone else...

You're right. He was tempted to kill an innocent boy. He is a monster!

Are You kidding, right?

my english is not very good. i am having a hard time understanding you.

so the queen and mel cried out. what sort of a king agrees to kill a child when two people cry really hard.?

-Stannis has heir , Shireen. and he is still young , it is possible for him to have more children.

the man walks in to the bedroom like he is going to war. to do his job. its a wonder he has shireen.

still really curios about stannis wielding the cleaver.

[The Drunkard]

so the queen and mel cried out. what sort of a king agrees to kill a child when two people cry really hard.?

Stannis believed that Mel had power, but wasn't sure how much. If she was telling the truth, and sacrificing Edric could save the realm with minimal suffering, then for the 'greater good' he should get that boy a'roasting. That was why he was considering it. Weighing up, one, whether to trust Mel, and two, if killing one innocent is worth saving the realm.

[Spotted Cat]

Stannis believed that Mel had power, but wasn't sure how much. If she was telling the truth, and sacrificing Edric could save the realm with minimal suffering, then for the 'greater good' he should get that boy a'roasting. That was why he was considering it. Weighing up, one, whether to trust Mel, and two, if killing one innocent is worth saving the realm.

killing edric according to mel would wake the stone dragon. (what ever it is)

if it is a real stone dragon of dragonstone came to life, it will certainly kill more than one boy.

so it will never be one innocent person.

[The Drunkard]

killing edric according to mel would wake the stone dragon. (what ever it is)

if it is a real stone dragon of dragonstone came to life, it will certainly killed more than one boy.

so it will never be one innocent person.

Whether it's one innocent person or a number of them, the point is he's weighing up their lives in comparison to everyone's.

[W.Kane]

body mutilation was required then?

why couldnt he give the man a sack of gold to go away. its not like stannis never break the law.

- that's exactly the difference between Stannis and other Lords , people like Ned , Renly , Robert , Rob and ... probably would have thanked him and gave him some gold and a good bye , but Stannis is different and look how it turned out : that smuggler became his most trusted and loyal servant. and for Davos it was very beneficial ,too ,a crabber's son and a smuggler became a " hand of the king " (it is like a dream for a smalfolk like Davos in Westeros ).

yes, stannis forgave those Lords who betrayed him but he had no choice he needed them to win the iron throne a good leader should be pragmatic , right?

be he didn't forget their treason:

"these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power & glory, & I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten."

another good quote from Stannis :

"My lords bannermen are inconstant even in their treasons. I need them, but you should know how it sickens me to pardon such as these when I have punished better men for lesser crimes. You have every right to reproach me, Ser Davos.”

-

[Spotted Cat]

Whether it's one innocent person or a number of them, the point is he's weighing up their lives in comparison to everyone's.

how much is "a number"

all the soldiers died in field of fires was a number.

so is all of them who died in harrenhal.

yes, stannis forgave those Lords who betrayed him but he had no choice he needed them to win the iron throne a good leader should be pragmatic , right?

-

lets not forget that stannis himself is a traitor. to targ kings.

so is ned and lannisters and all the rest of them.

non of them are so self righteous though.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

lets not forget that stannis himself is a traitor. to targ kings.

so is ned and lannisters and all the rest of them.

non of them are so self righteous though.

And look how much trouble Stannis had with that. I, for one, would not doubt for a second to follow my brother (or well, sister in my case) to war for the reasons of Robert's Rebellion, but no. Stannis actually had to make a pretty tough choice; following his lawful King, or follow his rebellious brother.

[Kate Poem]

body mutilation was required then?

why couldnt he give the man a sack of gold to go away. its not like stannis never break the law

Because Stannis wanted reward Davos REALLY, give him better life. Not only sack of gold and go away, back to smuggling.

my english is not very good. i am having a hard time understanding you.

so the queen and mel cried out. what sort of a king agrees to kill a child when two people cry really hard?

Davos was'nt in Dragonstone. He had'nt any chances influence for king Stannis. Melisandre and Selyse were there. These women, queen and priestess had every chances influence for him. Edric Storm could be burnt alive in any moment before and after Davos' return.

And he played, took lessons, sword-training, slept, ate, LIVED.

What king Stannis did after Edric's escape, organizing by Davos?

Took his head? His lands? Throw him in dungeon? Exiled him?

No? Hmmm... Maybe he... did'nt want burn his nephew? Maybe he was happy Davos save young Edric from Melisandre?

What do You think?

[Spotted Cat]

Davos was'nt in Dragonstone. He had'nt any chances influence for king Stannis. Melisandre and Selyse were there. These women, queen and priestess had every chances influence for him. Edric Storm could be burnt alive in any moment before and after Davos' return.

And he played, took lessons, sword-training, slept, ate, LIVED.

What king Stannis did after Edric's escape, organizing by Davos?

Took his head? His lands? Throw him in dungeon? Exiled him?

No? Hmmm... Maybe he... did'nt want burn his nephew? Maybe he was happy Davos save young Edric from Melisandre?

What do You think?

so basically what you are saying is stannis is so under mels control that he is not man enough to say no to her to save a little child. davos did the deed for him and he didnt punish him. how noble of him.

if stannis is real royal material (IMO) he would have davos kidnap the boy and vanish from westeros. blame it all on him and move on. instead of dancing like a puppet waving his shiny fake sword and waiting for someone to take edric out of mel s reach. he is the king for heavens sake.

if davos didnt kidnap the boy he would have killed him to please mel even if he didn like it.

so then

All hail queen melisandre first of her name,Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men,Lady of the Seven Kingdoms,Protector of the Realm

because thats what westeros will have under stannis.

would he burn shireen alive if mel decided she has to go to make way for the dragon.?

if he wanted to really reward davos what is stopping him from awarding all that stuff without mutilation. ?

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

i guess i cannot trust a guy who can chop off body parts of a man who just saved you from starvation.

Davos was a smuggler and should have lost his hands for his crimes; instead he lost the tips of a few fingers and gained a lordship due to his courage.

If you rob a bank and then save a bus full of children, you're still a bank robber. Your punishment may be less severe, but you still deserve to be punished.

the man has no compassion whatsoever and he is easily deceived.

Stannis has shown great compassion, but it is often overshadowed by his want to always be firm and just.

He has no heir, so the realm will fall to darkness after him (or it will be in the hands of who ever marries shireen)

He has time to have heirs.

For all his claims of unrelenting upholding of law, he was tempted to kill an innocent boy (almost did it IMO).

Stannis have never claimed to be unrelenting in upholding the law. That is a trait that we as readers have applied to him through his actions that we have seen.

Stannis told Mel and Selyse to leave him alone regarding the boy because the boy was of his own blood. Anyone would at least consider it if they felt the life of this one boy could save the lives of thousands.

if selyse died, he might marry mel. is that even possible?

In my view, Stannis is beginning to move away from Mel.

why couldnt he give the man a sack of gold to go away. its not like stannis never break the law

The only time I recall Stannis breaking the law was when he rebelled against the throne with his brother. If Robert had lost, Stannis would have been killed as a traitor to the throne I'm sure he would have accepted the punishment since he did commit the crime.

so basically what you are saying is stannis is so under mels control that he is not man enough to say no to her to save a little child. davos did the deed for him and he didnt punish him. how noble of him.

Stannis said no to both Mel and Selyse in regards to Edric.

if stannis is real royal material (IMO) he would have davos kidnap the boy and vanish from westeros. blame it all on him and move on. instead of dancing like a puppet waving his shiny fake sword and waiting for someone to take edric out of mel s reach. he is the king for heavens sake.

if davos didnt kidnap the boy he would have killed him to please mel even if he didn like it.

Stannis was torn between the life of his nephew and the life of thousands. In Stannis' view, that was the decision he had to make and he was totally conflicted about it; it was a lose/lose situation. Davos saved him from making this horrible decision. It is obvious that Stannis did not want to kill the boy, otherwise he would have went after him.

[W.Kane]

lets not forget that stannis himself is a traitor. to targ kings.

so is ned and lannisters and all the rest of them.

non of them are so self righteous though.

mad king killed a lot of innocent people , and was going to burn Kings landing to the ground and all the people in it . kings's duty is protecting the realm , not destroying it. he was a tyrant . there should be a line , don't you think?

Robert was his liege lord and his brother .

what would you choose:

-your insane king who is destroying the realm ?

or

- your brother and your liege lord who wants to put an end to that madness ?

it was the most difficult decision in his life , either way he would be betraying one of them.

even though he was a traitor to his king but his action was morally justified.

[Kate Poem]

so basically what you are saying is stannis is so under mels control that he is not man enough to say no to her to save a little child. davos did the deed for him and he didnt punish him. how noble of him.

No, I said king Stannis told Selyse and Melisandre "NO" many, many times. Before Davos' return and after Davos's return.

if stannis is real royal material (IMO) he would have davos kidnap the boy and vanish from westeros. blame it all on him and move on.

Why, for Rh'llor's sake, he should exile Davos? Davos was his trusted advisor, his loyal and devoted Hand, one and only person, who spoke truth to him!

if he wanted to really reward davos what is stopping him from awarding all that stuff without mutilation. ?

Smugglers and thieves could lost his hands. It was justice. Davos was smuggler. He could end without both his hand or hanged. After him - his sons. It would'nt be important how big would be sack of gold from Stannis, Davos would back to smuggling in the end.

[Spotted Cat]

mad king killed a lot of innocent people , and was going to burn Kings landing to the ground and all the people in it . kings's duty is protecting the realm , not destroying it. he was a tyrant . there should be a line , don't you think?

Robert was his liege lord and his brother .

what would you choose:

-your insane king who is destroying the realm ?

or

- your brother and your liege lord who wants to put an end to that madness ?

it was the most difficult decision in his life , either way he would be betraying one of them.

even though he was a traitor to his king but his action was morally justified.

mad king should have burned over a slow fire a long time ago.

i d choose my brother (if i had one) in a heartbeat.

but i dont intend to judge others for doing so (treason) afterwords.

[Spotted Cat]

Smugglers and thieves could lost his hands. It was justice. Davos was smuggler. He could end without both his hand or hanged. After him - his sons. It would'nt be important how big would be sack of gold from Stannis, Davos would back to smuggling in the end.

davos seaworth has to be the craziest guy in westeros to smuggle in to stannises castle. GRRM said he was out for money, did he hope to get away with it?

Davos in that edric matter is immaterial. any trusted guy would do.

100 No s and 1 yes is still a yes.

mel has way too much power over stannis. Rasputin like.

[Kate Poem]

1/ I think Davos from Flea Bottom expected very, very big sack of gold in reward for onions and fish. I think he thought after that he will be... dimissed. He did'nt expect knighting, lands, making squire from Devan, making capitains from his other sons. He did'nt expect punishment too, but, after... sentence... he asked for one thing and Stannis gave him this thing. A justice from his own hands.

2/ As higher.

3/ No, it is'nt immaterial. Only Davos knew - expected - his King will hear his explanation... and nobody planned Edric's escape except Davos, before Davos began plan everything.

4/ You are probably right, but - You will be right, if Edric would be dead now. Edric is alive. Davos, son of crabber and literally traitor of his King become a envoy to very powerful lord.

5/ No.

[W.Kane]

if he wanted to really reward davos what is stopping him from awarding all that stuff without mutilation. ?

the Stannis view of justice:

“It was justice,” Stannis said. “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward. You were a hero and a smuggler.”

[Spotted Cat]

1/ I think Davos from Flea Bottom expected very, very big sack of gold in reward for onions and fish. I think he thought after that he will be... dimissed. He did'nt expect knighting, lands, making squire from Devan, making capitains from his other sons. He did'nt expect punishment too, but, after... sentence... he asked for one thing and Stannis gave him this thing. A justice from his own hands.

2/ As higher.

3/ No, it is'nt immaterial. Only Davos knew - expected - his King will hear his explanation... and nobody planned Edric's escape except Davos, before Davos began plan everything.

4/ You are probably right, but - You will be right, if Edric would be dead now. Edric is alive. Davos, son of crabber and literally traitor of his King become a envoy to very powerful lord.

5/ No.

1 ya. chopping board must have been a big surplice for him

3 u misunderstand me. stannis could have planned the whole thing. if he had enough brains. to send edric away with some trustworthy person.

4you make it sound like stannis listens to davos in all things. if he really listened to davos, he would be the king right now instead of freezing in winterfell.

5 any power stannis still has, he has because of mel. only army he has left is religious fanatics who follow mel.

(queens men)

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

1 ya. chopping board must have been a big surplice for him

Davos himself views Stannis' punishment as just--as many posters have pointed out to you. If you refuse to acknowledge the fact that Davos was both a hero and a smuggler and received a lenient punishment and a great reward, that's your prerogative.

3 u misunderstand me. stannis could have planned the whole thing. if he had enough brains. to send edric away with some trustworthy person.

Stannis' whole moral dilemma in relation to Edric Strom was, "Do I choose this one boy over thousands, or do I spare this innocent child that is mine own blood." Stannis couldn't send Edric away himself or have anything to do with the boy leaving, because that would feel like he was choosing the one boy over thousands; which is the reason he probably had a sigh of relief when Davos made the choice for him. As I mentioned earlier, if Stannis was intent on killing Edric he would have went after him.

4you make it sound like stannis listens to davos in all things. if he really listened to davos, he would be the king right now instead of freezing in winterfell.

Please explain. Mel's power over Stannis has been diminishing for a while now.

5 any power stannis still has, he has because of mel. only army he has left is religious fanatics who follow mel.

(queens men)

Stannis' army is composed of more than religious fanatics. The religious fanatics are actually in the minority. .

[Spotted Cat]

Davos himself views Stannis' punishment as just--as many posters have pointed out to you. If you refuse to acknowledge the fact that Davos was both a hero and a smuggler and received a lenient punishment and a great reward, that's your prerogative.

actually i acknowledge that fact.

good thing he wasn't a murderer then. stannis would have beheaded him and made the corpse a lord....

Stannis' whole moral dilemma in relation to Edric Strom was, "Do I choose this one boy over thousands, or do I spare this innocent child that is mine own blood." Stannis couldn't send Edric away himself or have anything to do with the boy leaving, because that would feel like he was choosing the one boy over thousands; which is the reason he probably had a sigh of relief when Davos made the choice for him. As I mentioned earlier, if Stannis was intent on killing Edric he would have went after him.

i totally agree. (strange enough) my point is he could have engineered the kidnapping himself without waiting for davos to do it.

it wouldn't be just one boy if mel woke the dragon.

Please explain. Mel's power over Stannis has been diminishing for a while now.

attack on KL of course. if a recce petrol was initiated, the whole fleet would be saved. but this is more of admirals failure than stannises. but he chose his admiral wrong.

Stannis' army is composed of more than religious fanatics. The religious fanatics are actually in the minority.

respectfully disagree. .His army is north men who want to save winterfell and religious fanatics.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

1. To each their own.

2. My point is that he couldn't have engineered the kidnapping himself due to the reason I listed above. Your view on Mel waking the dragon is different from mine own.

3. What did that have to do with Mel? Stannis left Mel behind during the Battle of the Blackwater.

4. You just admitted that his army is more than religious fanatics.