Why Stannis wouldn't be a good king

[Spotted Cat]

1. To each their own.

:agree:

2. My point is that he couldn't have engineered the kidnapping himself due to the reason I listed above. Your view on Mel waking the dragon is different from mine own.

i am curious about your view. i am not sure about anything regarding this. seems unlikely it means an actual dragon. but something terrible anyway.

3. What did that have to do with Mel? Stannis left Mel behind during the Battle of the Blackwater.

it has nothing to do with mel. i was talikg abt the fact that stannis didnt always listened to davos. as suggested by good Kate Poem.

stannis owes all his "victories" to mel. storm's end, renley etc. if it weren't for her black arts, he would be buried in bitterbridge.

4. You just admitted that his army is more than religious fanatics.

where is that majority of non religious fanatics you mentioned?

northmen just joined him. that's because of jons suggestion. i am not sure they will fight for him for long.

[W.Kane]

@

Spotted Cat

holding storm's end for more than one year against a massive army , destroying iron fleet ! , destroying massive wildings army and ....

these are victories and military achievements and Mel has nothing to do with them.

I don't think anybody consider Renly and Cortnay Penrose assassinations military achievements . and yes , Mel saved Stannis , it is what servants of Lords and kings do for their masters , it is called service. Renly had 100,000 soldiers , Stannis had 5000 soldiers and Melisandre and he won.

Stannis has two types of men under his command : king's men (they mostly believe in Faith) and queens men(they believe in Rhllor and they are fanatics). north men joined him later.

[Spotted Cat]

@

Spotted Cat

holding storm's end for more than one year against a massive army , destroying iron fleet ! , destroying massive wildings army and ....

these are victories and military achievements and Mel has nothing to do with them.

I don't think anybody consider Renly and Cortnay Penrose assassinations military achievements . and yes , Mel saved Stannis , it is what servants of Lords and kings do for their masters , it is called service. Renly had 100,000 soldiers , Stannis had 5000 soldiers and Melisandre and he won.

Stannis has two types of men under his command : king's men (they mostly believe in Faith) and queens men(they believe in Rhllor and they are fanatics). north men joined him later.

i never said he is nothing without mel. but this new image he is showing, the chosen one with the shining sword, well it is all mel.

renley and penrose assassinations are probably the most important moments of the war of five kings. without those there will be no war actually. renley will crush both stannis and lannisters and may come to a truce with robb. robb would have made a short work of iron men. if might is right worked for one brother, it would work for another just as easily.

if stannis has so many men who believe in faith of the seven, why does he act as this fire worshiping hero.?

or do you believe he is the hero that was promised?

[Hank Scorpio]

Fubar

[Spotted Cat]

What a nice sunny flowery scenario :grouphug:

You forgot two names in your scenario ...

Varys + Littelfinger = Game Over do-nothing king Renly

Both men fears Stannis ; Renly is only a piece in the Game of Thrones

renley is a piece no doubt. but so is stannis.

both can easily kill LF and varys. non of them can defeat LF or varys in the GAME.

stannis is yet to show that he is a capable player.

give an example of a brilliant move by stannis. a brilliant political move like that of LF or varys or even tyrion. one that does not involve dark magic please.

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

truth is we may never know . everyone tought that Robert will be great king - althu i like him and he was a kind king he brought kindom to bankruptcy

leaving Ned nothing but a papper as a shield to protect his legacy.

same thing can be said about Daenerys ...she's been in Meereen for 2 years and place gets worse by the week

(at least she'll have imp to clean the mess she makes)

Jon seems clever nuff . he took the loan from iron bank - he has to win the war first to pay it beck - hahaha - i think is briliant move.

thing about Stannis is that people may fear what ser Davos fears - Red Women - she may tell him to burn some people for some reson - and this could lead

to another war .

[Castel]

And look how much trouble Stannis had with that. I, for one, would not doubt for a second to follow my brother (or well, sister in my case) to war for the reasons of Robert's Rebellion, but no. Stannis actually had to make a pretty tough choice; following his lawful King, or follow his rebellious brother.

The result probably made Stannis all the more fanatical. He betrayed the legal king and what did he get? Shit.

mad king should have burned over a slow fire a long time ago.

i d choose my brother (if i had one) in a heartbeat.

but i dont intend to judge others for doing so (treason) afterwords.

Why should he burn? There is no Magna Carta. The king is the highest authority. Legally no one has the right to try him.

As for Edric Storm: I don't see the issue? Stannis had to not only worry about not getting the throne, he had to worry about the potential end of the world. Against that any atrocity is justifiable with utilitarian arithmetic. Edric Storm <<<< the world. The only thing that should have slowed Stannis down is the fact that he cannot know if Melisandre is right or not. And it did, until he saw how her predictions turned out. Being a king is about doing what's best for the realm. Robb is a shitty king and Ned would have been a shitty king because they couldn't deal with the reality and preferred to act as if they were in an ideal world. Stannis would have acted realistically.

[Spotted Cat]

Why should he burn? There is no Magna Carta. The king is the highest authority. Legally no one has the right to try him.

magna carta or no magna carta all human beings should be held accountable for their deeds.

burning him is only justice.

are you also saying that bob and ned are wrong in rebelling?

it is bound to happen. the way he treated the country.

faking the part of promised hero doesn't seem very realistic to me.

[Castel]

magna carta or no magna carta all human beings should be held accountable for their deeds.

burning him is only justice.

are you also saying that bob and ned are wrong in rebelling?

it is bound to happen. the way he treated the country.

faking the part of promised hero doesn't seem very realistic to me.

Right and wrong is irrelevant to the law here. As far as we can see there's no legal recourse for the nobles so they rebelled unlawfully. Burning him would be revenge, not justice.

Just the sad nature of some of these political systems.

[Spotted Cat]

Right and wrong is irrelevant to the law here. As far as we can see there's no legal recourse for the nobles so they rebelled unlawfully. Burning him would be revenge, not justice.

Just the sad nature of some of these political systems.

Whats the law about conquering using dragons?

whats the law about sister brother marriage?

just curios.

[Castel]

Whats the law about conquering using dragons?

whats the law about sister brother marriage?

just curios.

As far as we know there's no law on either.

You can make a case for there being a law against incest but that seems more like a religious issue than a legal one.

Not sure why that matters.

[Hank Scorpio]

Fubar

[Ponys123]

Do you think soldiers are some sort of mindless servants?

More or less, yes. This isn't a citizen army fighting for national interests, the majority of troops in Westeros are serving under personal obligation. So long as their deal with their lord is upheld, they will serve him no matter what his political decisions - that's the entire point of having retainers. As has been shown over and over again. Those who aren't permanent retainers are generally mercenaries, who care even less.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Well, I have to disagree. Stannis is the only one who would be a good king. He is a truly just man who would be the king because it is his duty not for personal reasons… Not to mention he is the only one who cares….

[LuisDantas]

Well, I have to disagree. Stannis is the only one who would be a good king. He is a truly just man who would be the king because it is his duty not for personal reasons… Not to mention he is the only one who cares….

I keep hearing that, but it really isn't in the books.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I keep hearing that, but it really isn't in the books.

He returns!

You always make Stannis convos more interesting, Luis, even if I disagree with you.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I keep hearing that, but it really isn't in the books.

what isn't in the books?

[James Arryn]

I keep hearing that, but it really isn't in the books.

If not for the favour bestowed on him, he's basically MacBeth.

A proven military commander trying to seize power by consorting with sorcery and engaging in assassination, all on the basis of prophecy and a sense he is rightfully due power.

And yet, this is the good guy. Because he uses short sentences, i suppose.

[Tony Soprano]

I keep hearing that, but it really isn't in the books.

It seems like you only remember what you want to remember. Did you forget how Stannis held Storm's End against the mighty armies of the Reach? Did you forget how he saved the North from the Wildling invasion?

So, please tell me what a terrible person Stannis is...again.

[James Arryn]

It seems like you only remember what you want to remember. Did you forget how Stannis held Storm's End against the mighty armies of the Reach?

What was his alternative?