Varamyr says something interesting. (SPOILERS)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Ned?

Arys Oakheart is pretty dead dead too

And both died in another PoV. Not in their own like all those I mentioned - and Jon.

[The Raven's Teeth]

As soon as I read Jons last chapter in ADWD I immediately thought of the prologue and how he was going to Warg into Ghost.

I just hope that it will be a temporary place to "Hold" is being until they can revive him.

:agree:

[Lady Green]

@brightblueeyes, I see what you mean now, I thought you meant that no POV had died and not been resurrected. That's a good catch, there must be a reason for it! I now have more hope for Jon!

[Gi_Varotti]

I agree with you, Patrek Stark. It'd be cool to have a Jon's POV while he was warged into Ghost.

And both died in another PoV. Not in their own like all those I mentioned - and Jon.

Ah got it. I thought you mentioned the POVs that have died (in their own chapter or not).

[Scipio Africanus]

And both died in another PoV. Not in their own like all those I mentioned - and Jon.

Cat died in her own POV (as you mentioned). Or at least, getting your throat slit isn't recommondable to your health. And this is apart from prologue/epilogue POVs. So it isn't written in stone that Jon won't be perma dead on that account.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Cat died in her own POV (as you mentioned). Or at least, getting your throat slit isn't recommondable to your health. And this is apart from prologue/epilogue POVs. So it isn't written in stone that Jon won't be perma dead on that account.

True. Still 1:20 or the like. And she showed up again.

[sifth]

Ned?

He died in an Arya POV, lol

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If Mel's "man to wolf then back again" thing does pertain to his death and it's accurate, then it shows that Jon will find a way to "exit" Ghost, by going from his own body into Ghost and then back into his (or another?) human body. So the Varamyr situation, where you warg into an animal when you die and that's it — you're stuck as that animal until that animal dies — will not be Jon's fate. IF the vision is accurate and IF it does refer to this situation.

ETA: Also, if this ends up happening, GRRM has thematically telegraphed that Jon is both a hero (Sansa wanting a hero to cut off Slynt's head) and a king (a direwolf is a second life fit for a king). And some people can't root for this guy ... why?

[Florina Laufeyson]

It is generally accepted that this foreshadows Jon going into Ghost while he's out. Another thing Varamyr said about Ghost: a second life fit for a king.

I find that bit to be most telling. ;)

[Lady Green]

I take the jon-ghost-jon thing to mean that he's currently unconcious, didn't Bran dream of Summer while unconcious/have his warg-wakening.

Either that or that is a vision of him being legitamised as a Stark but then choosing to honour his vows despite being the legal King in the North.

[Lord Warhammer]

I take the jon-ghost-jon thing to mean that he's currently unconcious, didn't Bran dream of Summer while unconcious/have his warg-wakening.

Either that or that is a vision of him being legitamised as a Stark but then choosing to honour his vows despite being the legal King in the North.

Thats the theory in my head too. He shuold just awake more powerful imo

[Lady Green]

Thats the theory in my head too. He shuold just awake more powerful imo

A bit like Bran's 3EC dream? But its not about whether or not he wakes up more powerful, he is powerful already (might have been Varamyr who pointed that out), its whether or not he wakes up more accepting of his powers.

[Gi_Varotti]

He died in an Arya POV, lol

I know. I thought that Bright Blue Eyes was talking about dead POVs (be it on their own or not). :)

I'm not sure about the condidtion of Jon's body, the vision that Bran had about him in a cold bed and with a pale and frozen skin is quite worrying... but then Jon would be reborn from ice instead of fire (this also suits Jon's dream of the black icy armor). How would that happen without Jon becoming a wight? Coldhands is a nice guy but I don't want Jon's fate to follow that road :/

[Lady Green]

I know. I thought that Bright Blue Eyes was talking about dead POVs (be it on their own or not). :)

I'm not sure about the condidtion of Jon's body, the vision that Bran had about him in a cold bed and with a pale and frozen skin is quite worrying... but then Jon would be reborn from ice instead of fire (this also suits Jon's dream of the black icy armor). How would that happen without Jon becoming a wight? Coldhands is a nice guy but I don't want Jon's fate to follow that road :/

Rebirth by Ice is a good parrallel to Dany, but what Bran is glimpsing could be an hallucination or a possible future. Otherwise, if Jon still is alive then it could be as simple as he was running a fever and they needed to cool him down.

[Lord Warhammer]

A bit like Bran's 3EC dream? But its not about whether or not he wakes up more powerful, he is powerful already (might have been Varamyr who pointed that out), its whether or not he wakes up more accepting of his powers.

Well put

[NotSoSilentSister]

I was just trying to be snarky with the no-holes comment. He may very well have to bear those the rest of his life. While you raise a good point about the Night's Watch willingness to follow someone who came back from the dead, I still believe the Old Gods/warging and Red R'hollor resurrection fits his while ice+fire storyline very well.

Maybe they can skirt the undead leader thing by doing everything behind closed doors. There's no reason for full disclosure wrt the magic involved in him surviving.

Bingo. For all people need to know, Jon was just unconscious for a while and then "healed" by Mel. The non-healing holes might be a bit of a give-away about the Undead-thing, but then again, if I remember correctly, they are on parts of his body that he can cover up, aren't they?

[Lady Green]

Bingo. For all people need to know, Jon was just unconscious for a while and then "healed" by Mel. The non-healing holes might be a bit of a give-away about the Undead-thing, but then again, if I remember correctly, they are on parts of his body that he can cover up, aren't they?

If they're on parts of the body that can be covered up then that could mean that they are in less fatal places, its all done in a hurry, so I suspect that no one had a chance to just aim for Jon's heart and kill him straight off.

[armidil0]

I don't know if it's been said already, but if John SNow is going to have anything else to do in hte future, as a human, then he is not dead.

When you die you go into your familiar, and stay there. Slowly fading away overtime, and I don't think even a ressurection can fix it. This is how I view warging, you have yourself, and a familiar. You can move your conscience to the familar and take over for a bit (skinchanging). But you still have a "soul" which is different than just you conscience. That acts as almost like a home beacon so that you can reenter your body. The problem being is, when you die your conscience and "soul" jump into your familiar. So if his body gets revived he just can't jump back to it willy nilly. Thats my take of the varymyr chapter. Thats why I think Jon is unconscience, wounded, but not dead. He can still warg Ghost. Just not dead.

[Lady Green]

@armidil0, I agree with you on the principles of warging, but Ghost, and the Other Stark kids' direwolves, have a stronger connection I think, even Lady, who is part of Sansa despite being dead.

[NotSoSilentSister]

The problem being is, when you die your conscience and "soul" jump into your familiar. So if his body gets revived he just can't jump back to it willy nilly.

Well, it might not be easy, but why would you think it's impossible? So far we haven't seen anyone try and fail nor have we had anyone explain that it can't be done.