[Book spoilers] Talisa Maegyr or Talisa Westerling

[Lord Godric]

I don't know where I stand on the Talisa is a spy thing. I don't see much build-up to it in the show. I suppose that could be yet to come, but TV tends to make things obvious (think how they've already sowed the seeds about Roose) but I can also easily see them just using Talisa to replace the whole Sybell Spicer planning with Tywin setup. I think I'm leaning more towards the idea that she isn't a spy, but I wouldn't be shocked.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

I really hope her going to the RW really isn't that case. That will be the nail in the coffin of making be absolutely hate the story arc. But at any rate I really don't think, or hope, any context should be taken on if Talisa does or doesn't die on whether Jeyne is pregnant. I mean they've changed other stuff which I feel shows they don't care about certain aspects/characters of the show. Like making Litte Finger so blatantly obvious (though I know that really doesn't change anything down the line at all.) I'd name others but I'm not going to get into a huge post haha.

But basically all I meant to put is, couldn't that just be the at Riverrun paying respects to Catelyn's father? My first initial thought, like I'm assuming most did as well, would have been 'oh yes they're at RW! I hate D&D' (The last part would have been my own opinion though. Since it would be to much of a change for me in this story arc.) The more I thought about it, it could make sense they're all standing there like that, even the king and queen, for a funeral. Or am I not remembering things right from Joffrey's funeral in the books and I'm completely off base?

I cannot stand Talisa. If she is in the RW, that woud be the first big change that D&D have made that I would like. I actually love the idea of her being in the RW. Talisa being in the RW could mean one of the following 3:

1. She dies in the RW! Yay!!
   
2. She is a spy! I don't like her already so yeah whatever, just some more hate. But now everybody else would hate her, too!!! Yay!!
   
3. She is going to take the place of Fake!Arya (I don't know how this would work, but many people think it would, so..) If that's the case, I cannot wait for her to meet our sweet dear Ramsay!!! Yay!!!
   

So my first initial thought, is "Oh yes they are at the RW! First time I love D&D!!!!!"

[Winter In My Heart]

I cannot stand Talisa. If she is in the RW, that woud be the first big change that D&D have made that I would like. I actually love the idea of her being in the RW. Talisa being in the RW could mean one of the following 3:

1. She dies in the RW! Yay!!
   
2. She is a spy! I don't like her already so yeah whatever, just some more hate. But now everybody else would hate her, too!!! Yay!!
   
3. She is going to take the place of Fake!Arya (I don't know how this would work, but many people think it would, so..) If that's the case, I cannot wait for her to meet our sweet dear Ramsay!!! Yay!!!
   

So my first initial thought, is "Oh yes they are at the RW! First time I love D&D!!!!!"

Lol I see your point! But I just hate the thought people will use her being in the Red Wedding to speculate what will happen with Jeyne in the books. I personally love the thought of Jeyne being pregnant, just from all the debates I've read and seen the theory, but it really sucks everyone is going to use Talisa to put the 'nail in the coffin' of whether she is or not. I kind of hope they just completely take a different route with this Robb/Talisa thing that way it doesn't 'spoil' how things might turn out in the books with the whole possible preggers route.

So yeah, I'd love to see her die at the RW (I'll be absolutely furious if she's a spy. That's almost as tragic as how things turned out in the book for Robb. But the only difference being Talisa never loved him like it seems Jeyne had.) I really hope it is just them at the funeral though becuase as much as I hate her, I don't like the spy outcome or her being Fake!Arya. (Even she doesn't deserve to be treated horribly by Ramsay lol.) I'll admit I kind of hope she turns out pregnant just because it means they might be staying somewhat true to the books and Jeyne might be pregnant haha. But either way I'd rather not have that particular theory ruined becuase of what they do in the show.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

mmm.. yeah I also like the idea of Jeyne being pregnant, and that she scaped with the Blackfish. However, I don't think we should be considering the Show when it comes to make Book theories. I mean we've already seen D&D killing minor characters that later become more important. For example Mago who is going to be a recurring character in TWoW. Also, Marillion didn't lose his tongue, and we know he is supposed to be singing and pushing someone later in ASoS. Besides, D&D know a lot of things that will happen, but they don't know EVERYTHING. GRRM is still writing and he oftens changes his mind while writing (we know this for how long it takes him to write a book). As a purist I would like them to stay as close to the books as possible, but sadly, we all know that's not gonna happen. Al least nothing that they do can change the (already existing) books, and I hope that Martin doesn't change major plots (in a bad way) in the coming books because of the Show.

[Winter In My Heart]

Oh yeah, I do remember people making a big fuss about Mago. I don't remember Marillion, but then again it's been awhile since I've read the third book. But I see your point, they have changed little things that will have a butterfly affect later on, which Martin already commented about. (I don't remember where, I just remember reading it.) I really hope it isn't the case either that Martin would change plots because of the show. Particularly because I think his arcs in the story are better. (Though the show is a very good one by television standards and there are little changes in the show I like.) But yeah I could imagine, if that happened, the show doing something ridiculously stupid with Talisa, just using her as an example because this threads about her, and Martin deciding to go with it in the books. (I hope he doesn't. I hope he sticks with whatever things he already decided for major/semi-major plots and doesn't change it because of the show.) Personally I think he's a better writer than D&D. For the most part they're decent writers adaptation wise, but I don't like some changes they did, like the Talisa one.

[mafalda]

mmm.. yeah I also like the idea of Jeyne being pregnant, and that she scaped with the Blackfish. However, I don't think we should be considering the Show when it comes to make Book theories. I mean we've already seen D&D killing minor characters that later become more important. For example Mago who is going to be a recurring character in TWoW. Also, Marillion didn't lose his tongue, and we know he is supposed to be singing and pushing someone later in ASoS. Besides, D&D know a lot of things that will happen, but they don't know EVERYTHING. GRRM is still writing and he oftens changes his mind while writing (we know this for how long it takes him to write a book). As a purist I would like them to stay as close to the books as possible, but sadly, we all know that's not gonna happen. Al least nothing that they do can change the (already existing) books, and I hope that Martin doesn't change major plots (in a bad way) in the coming books because of the Show.

I don't udnerstand DD's reasoning for killing off characters who live in the books. Irri being one, and of course Mago. When GRRM says that this character will return, I don't get what sense it makes to kill them. Or why they don't include certain characters who will become important, like Jeyne Poole. How much would they have had to pay an actress to mumble the three lines jeyne had in the first book just so that people will remember her later on?? Also, DD love to do very obvious foreshadowing in the show, and since GRRM already told them the important stuff to come, I hope they don't spoil some things from books 6 and 7. They have already said that they will not wait for GRRM to write, that they will continue to do the show. I'm torn on how I feel about this because I understand that they can't just put the show on hold, especially since GRRM took, what 6 years between 4 and 5? But I also don't want the show to spoil books 6 and 7.

On topic, I saw the photos where Talisa is at the wedding.. at first I thought they were maybe at Hoster's funeral but Roose was also in the pic and after episode two we know that he will not be at the funeral, he'll be at harrenhal. Ever since that episode (I think episode 5 from season 2) where she quickly stops writing her letter hen Robb approcahes her I thought she was a spy.

I'm willing to bet my right sword hand that she is a spy.

[Winter In My Heart]

I don't udnerstand DD's reasoning for killing off characters who live in the books. Irri being one, and of course Mago. When GRRM says that this character will return, I don't get what sense it makes to kill them. Or why they don't include certain characters who will become important, like Jeyne Poole. How much would they have had to pay an actress to mumble the three lines jeyne had in the first book just so that people will remember her later on?? Also, DD love to do very obvious foreshadowing in the show, and since GRRM already told them the important stuff to come, I hope they don't spoil some things from books 6 and 7. They have already said that they will not wait for GRRM to write, that they will continue to do the show. I'm torn on how I feel about this because I understand that they can't just put the show on hold, especially since GRRM took, what 6 years between 4 and 5? But I also don't want the show to spoil books 6 and 7.

On topic, I saw the photos where Talisa is at the wedding.. at first I thought they were maybe at Hoster's funeral but Roose was also in the pic and after episode two we know that he will not be at the funeral, he'll be at harrenhal. Ever since that episode (I think episode 5 from season 2) where she quickly stops writing her letter hen Robb approcahes her I thought she was a spy.

I'm willing to bet my right sword hand that she is a spy.

Can you link to some pictures? I'm curious to see.

If she turns out to be a spy.. My teeth will be gritting hard since that just makes her even more cliche/badly written. The RW is already going to be a dramatic event and really don't care to have a stupid and unsurprising 'OMG SHE'S A SPY!!!'

[mafalda]

Can you link to some pictures? I'm curious to see.

If she turns out to be a spy.. My teeth will be gritting hard since that just makes her even more cliche/badly written. The RW is already going to be a dramatic event and really don't care to have a stupid and unsurprising 'OMG SHE'S A SPY!!!'

Sure! Sorry I'm just now responding..

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9007ff443d91e755d7a8ab60d909a3b7/tumblr_mk0pocAX5Z1r9h4heo1_1280.jpg

Between Talisa and Robb you can see Roose in the background. I cannot possibly think of what other event they would all be at.

[CrypticWeirwood]

If she turns out to be a spy.. My teeth will be gritting hard since that just makes her even more cliche/badly written. The RW is already going to be a dramatic event and really don't care to have a stupid and unsurprising 'OMG SHE'S A SPY!!!'

It isn’t clear what is happening with her character. The actress playing her did at one point let slip that there would be a twist with her character.

[Winter In My Heart]

It isn’t clear what is happening with her character. The actress playing her did at one point let slip that there would be a twist with her character.

I'm not saying that it's a fact. All I meant was I really, really, hope that's not the route they take. I'd rather the twist be her replacing fake Arya, which I never heard about this theory until recently. While I don't like the thought I'd honestly prefer that over her being a spy.

[Winter In My Heart]

Sure! Sorry I'm just now responding..

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9007ff443d91e755d7a8ab60d909a3b7/tumblr_mk0pocAX5Z1r9h4heo1_1280.jpg

Between Talisa and Robb you can see Roose in the background. I cannot possibly think of what other event they would all be at.

That's the scene I was talking about in the YouTube video, that clip. But that's Roose? He honestly looks way different to me in that picture, and shorter. I don't know I guess I'll just have to wait and see, but that guy kind of looks different and not like Roose to me.

[mafalda]

That's the scene I was talking about in the YouTube video, that clip. But that's Roose? He honestly looks way different to me in that picture, and shorter. I don't know I guess I'll just have to wait and see, but that guy kind of looks different and not like Roose to me.

I think it might be. The actor who plays Roose isn't that tall.. When we first saw him and Robb walking together side by side in Season 2, I remember thinking how short he looked next to Robb. Also, I guess it could be that he is behind them, and the way the camera is angled, but the forehead and nose and pursed mouth looks like him. If it isn't Roose then it could just be Hoster's funeral.. But I really want it to be Roose at the RW because I want my theory that Talisa is a spy to be true!

[mafalda]

That's the scene I was talking about in the YouTube video, that clip. But that's Roose? He honestly looks way different to me in that picture, and shorter. I don't know I guess I'll just have to wait and see, but that guy kind of looks different and not like Roose to me.

Also, I know what you mean. I don't WANT her to be spy because it will be an awfully cliched storyline.. but I've noticed way too many things from Season 2 leading me to think that she is a spy. I have my money set on it! Down from her silly life story, to her knowing way too much about Westerosi customs, her lack of an accent (EVERY single character from Essos on the show has had an accent, except for Talisa) and the whole note writing thing when Robb approached her. Her body language. And the fact that Roose always seemed to look at her kind of funny during S2 whenever he saw her. They would exchange these glances. Maybe it's my imagination, or I'm just being a conspiracy theorist, but I feel like there is a reason why DD changed Jeyne Westerling's whole character.

I do like the idea of her being the fake Arya for DwD though, because who else would they have play her?

[Arcydas]

After taking everything into consideration that's worth the trouble i can say : Talisa is a set up character for the RW.

If she wasn't a spy then D&D would have created totally unecessary changes and hints that only hindered the story (that we expected to be told)

There is no other purpose for creating talisa maegyr out of Jeyne westerling, other than letting her fulfill a merged role (it also saves them screen time and explanations)

Logical consequence --> People are going to hate Talisa Maegyr after this. Great shift in a character's role.I Like it.

[Draco_Dracul]

The problem with the spy theory is that Talisa is the single stupidest way to do a honeypot scheme. If she wasn't meant to be a honey pot, just a field nurse that could report troop movements the last thing you'd want is someone that would talk back to noblemen. Technically Talisa is a set up for the RW by simply not being a Frey.

[1234567]

If she is a spy, her "reward" might be getting to marry Ramsay.

Which may mean the audience feels less sympathy for what she endures, or she'll get a redemption arc.

Also although being a spy would be cliched, it would whitewash Tywin of his role in the RW if she wasn't and they are already making Tywin conflicted as opposed to an out and out sadistic bastard like he is in the books.

[YTDN]

^How would it whitewash Tywin? The only part that that Tywin played via the Westerlings was commanding Sybell to make sure Jeyne didn't get pregnant. The rest was him conspiring with the Freys and Roose to orchestrate the Red Wedding- they would never have done it without Tywin's say-so.

[1234567]

^How would it whitewash Tywin? The only part that that Tywin played via the Westerlings was commanding Sybell to make sure Jeyne didn't get pregnant. The rest was him conspiring with the Freys and Roose to orchestrate the Red Wedding- they would never have done it without Tywin's say-so.

It would lessen Tywin's role. Tywin conspiring with Sybil also added a layer of nastiness with his insisting Tyrion rape Sansa in order to claim the North for the Lannisters. It makes him striking a deal with Roose and the Freys seem almost understandable.

[King of Hats]

I'm not convinced, but can't rule it out. Not a fan of the 'Jeyne Westerling is a spy' theory.

I did love some of the annotation in that video posted though! ....swish

Oh, and the flash of 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' :cool4:

[Rhaegarsjoy]

Why change her name tho? I get Osha n Asha so ppl don't get confused, maybe they don't want another Jayne since they'll introduce Jayne Poole soon. But they could have changed only her first name, it would have been better to see the reaction of robb's supporters after he marries a girl whose house is pledged to tywin lannister. But if she's not a spy then they must have something more for her in mind then what we've seen so far in the books.