Why do so many people love the red viper?

[Theda Baratheon]

I'm very reluctant to ever call homages or references or inspirations outright borrowing or stealing ideas; I love the comparison

[Theda Baratheon]

It may seem like too strong an emotion to you, but other people are not going to respond to the text the same way you are. I never felt strongly about Stannis when I read the books, yet now I see that other people have pretty intense reactions to him and his story, whether they are positive or negative, for example. OP gave their reasons for disliking Oberyn and some of the other posters brought up theirs. It's pretty dismissive of you to declare that what you deem a vehement dislike could only come from wanting to be cool by going against the norm. I myself happen not to feel strongly about Oberyn. But some of his actions are something that I think pretty much does justify strong dislike, the same way that Tyrion's or Victarion treatment of women played a huge part in my strong dislike of them.

Who asked you to do that, though?

OK. Fair enough. I don't really argue with people unnecessarily. I was pretty dismissive. Lets leave it at that.

[paytheironicprice]

He is basically the reader's introduction to Dorne, and he embodies all the things about Dorne that make it so distinct from the resteros of Westeros. He looks different, fights differently, and he's sexually up-in-the-air but not ashamed of it. More than any other Dornish character, he represents what Dorne is all about.

[They see me R'hollin]

Prince Oberyn who defines every bit of the word masculine and has no shame in bedding men as much as women. I can already hear the homophobes (who probably glossed over that part of the book, as I’ve met many guys who insisted that Renly wasn’t gay in the books. I’M SORRY CAN YOU READ?) crying out. But if the show doesn’t include any mention of it I will be very, very disappointed and upset.

Because what is better than a very masculine, queer, POC out to avenge the rape and death of his beloved sister? NOTHING. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT.

I love Oberyn.

[Theda Baratheon]

Prince Oberyn who defines every bit of the word masculine and has no shame in bedding men as much as women. I can already hear the homophobes (who probably glossed over that part of the book, as I’ve met many guys who insisted that Renly wasn’t gay in the books. I’M SORRY CAN YOU READ?) crying out. But if the show doesn’t include any mention of it I will be very, very disappointed and upset.

Because what is better than a very masculine, queer, POC out to avenge the rape and death of his beloved sister? NOTHING. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT.

I love Oberyn.

Awww yeeee :cool4:

[Winter's Knight]

Prince Oberyn who defines every bit of the word masculine and has no shame in bedding men as much as women. I can already hear the homophobes (who probably glossed over that part of the book, as I’ve met many guys who insisted that Renly wasn’t gay in the books. I’M SORRY CAN YOU READ?) crying out. But if the show doesn’t include any mention of it I will be very, very disappointed and upset.

Because what is better than a very masculine, queer, POC out to avenge the rape and death of his beloved sister? NOTHING. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT.

I love Oberyn.

Sweet mercy, you just reminded me why I liked Oberyn. :drool:

Damnit George, you could at least have been explicit with Oberyn bedding men, considering that we have two PoVs who knew him well.

[therealbando]

Isn`t the name Oberyn "The Red Viper" Martell a good enough reason to like him? As soon as I heard that his nickname was Red viper I knew he would be an awesome character

[Theda Baratheon]

Isn`t the name Oberyn "The Red Viper" Martell a good enough reason to like him? As soon as I heard that his nickname was Red viper I knew he would be an awesome character

Haha, yes.

[Winterfellian]

I don't understand why so many people love him. I mean he has some cool lines and His relationship's and plotting with doran and willas tyrell both sound really interesting, and I think he's a pretty decent character but in no way a great one. there's so many things he's done wrong:

• he fathered the sand snakes and raised them to be the stupid, full of themselves, bloodthirsty, vengeful, warmongering, hot blooded, stupid kind of people who would lead dorne into a war it would lose miserably, who other than sarella, are generally incredibly annoying.
  
• He couldn't just get over the whole making him say elia's name thing and kill the bloody mountain.
  
• He wanted to champion viserys.
  
• He didn't listen to doran.
  
• His failure to win tyrion's trial led to the death of tywin who not only is one of my favourite characters but could've stopped cersei messing up the lannister's rule over the 7 kingdoms
  

Personally I have always like him. He's entertaining as hell to read, plus I like the Dornish.

- Am not saying he was father of the year but it's important to note that he valued his bastard daughters in a world where men seem to put preference on true born sons over bastards and daughters. The whole attitude of the Sand snakes for him is very telling. They all seem to think the world of him and they seem very proud to be his daughters, so the guy must have done something right. I always felt that the reason he gave them weapons to defend themselves, as he put it, can be traced to his sister's murder. Elia was powerless and lacked the means to defend herself against those who killed her and her children so probably he didn't want his daughters to be in that same position.

- I get your frustration, but take into account how close Elia and him were as children. The knowledge that for 17 years those responsible for the brutal murder of Elia and her children walked with impunity and in Tywin's case even have family in the direct line for the throne must have been hard to bear. He wanted the whole world to know their guilt, to make them accountable.

- Like someone wrote above, this was right after Robert's rebellion, when the Red Viper had no way to know Viserys will grew up to become the bitter, abusive men we meet at the beggining of AGOT.

- The fact that he was willing to give up on the plan of crowning Viserys and play Doran's long term game is proof enough that he did in fact listened to his brother. As Doran mentioned in AFFC, they worked together for years. If am not mistaken, the Red Viper was the one Doran sent to Bravoss to seal the marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne.

- The Red Viper wasn't acting on behalf of the benefit of Tywin or the Lannisters so I honestly can't understand why you hold this against him. As he himself told Tyrion:

The happiness of Tywin Lannister has never been high on my list of concerns

So why would his death screwing up the Lannisters plan should be held against him is beyond me.

[Light a wight tonight]

Like I said, revenging Elia and spiting Tywin were his motives-Tyrion was incidental. He really has no reason to like or care for him.

I'd say Tyrion was Oberyn's excuse or justification for doing what he wanted, not so much incidental. Definitley not love for Tyrion or belief in his cause.

[Nerolunar]

I just enjoy to read about Oberyn... a shame it did´nt last long :frown5:

[mediterraneo]

I like the Red Viper because of his carisma and guts.

Not badassery, mind it: I would have liked him less if it did not cost him so much what he did to the Mountain.

And no, no amount of talk will ever convince me that what the Mountain did when Oberyn was killed is any less of a complete victory for the Red Viper.

The Mountain admitted the responsability of the massacre in the name of Lannister.

Add that the Viper already organized Tywinn's and Jeoffrey's homicides with this historically unprecedented Martell-Tyrrell cooperation, and you'll understand why I'm emphatic with him.

He let himself horribly killed in front of a woman who loved him, because it was the best thing he could do to destroy the enemies of his people.

Pure, furious, hate, at any cost, in the body of this charmful, very vital man.

What a difference with his prudent, responsible brother!

[redviper9]

- Am not saying he was father of the year but it's important to note that he valued his bastard daughters in a world where men seem to put preference on true born sons over bastards and daughters. The whole attitude of the Sand snakes for him is very telling. They all seem to think the world of him and they seem very proud to be his daughters, so the guy must have done something right. I always felt that the reason he gave them weapons to defend themselves, as he put it, can be traced to his sister's murder. Elia was powerless and lacked the means to defend herself against those who killed her and her children so probably he didn't want his daughters to be in that same position.

You know, I'd never really thought of that...great interpretation!

[TinHouse]

I adore Oberyn, I love a character with charisma and whose willing to all balls to the wall to get shit done honestly.

He was quite a one trick pony, not too complex, but you need that in a story where even your "good guys" are sorta greyish honestly. Sometimes we just wanna read about the bad ass, whose a bad ass and nothing else.

I also loved Doran's description of him and his brother.

[Waylin Stark]

Everybody has their own opinions, especially regarding such grey characters. I didn't think he was anything special until my reread. Reasons are:

1. First Dornishman introduced.

2. Good interactions with Tyrion.

3. Cared for his poor sister so much as to get himself killed so that the world would know Gregor's crimes.

4. Killed Gregor using wits and tactics. Did what everyone deemed impossible or were too chicken to do.

5. Awesome lines.

6. Generally badass.

7. Treats the Sand Snakes as if they were his legitimate daughters.

8. Most likely poisoned Tywin.

[Tagganaro]

Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne

You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.

Looking at the humongous Mountain before the fight

"You are going to fight that?" Ellaria Sand said in a hushed voice.

"I am going to kill that," her lover replied carelessly

How can you not like him after that? He's incredibly confident, witty, funny, acts like a total badass, fights the evil Tywin and Gregor Clegane to avenge his poor sister, makes fun of Joffrey, pisses off Lord Puff-fish Tyrell, and is just generally awesome. Him reciting those lines during the fight with Clegane literally gave me chills. I can't wait to see that portrayed on TV (actually, with their track record so far I wouldn't be surprised to see that scene entirely cut to make some more room for Ros the Hooker or something, but that's another topic).

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

He is an interesting blend of modern and ASOIAF ideals. He is sexually liberated and teaches his daughters to be too - he gives them freedom and teaches them to be independant. He is cool, confident and laid back which makes for a charizmatic charecter, He seems to not be conserned with the rigid class sistem of Westeros. On the other hand he embrases the positive qualities of Westeros - he is brave, lordly and capable. This and the fact he is shrouded in mistery makes for a very interesting charecter,

[Ser_Patreck]

To be fair, the Sand Snakes were likely picking up on Arianne's resentment of Quentyn, which sprung from her belief that Doran was going to bypass her and name Quentyn his heir. We of course now know that Arianne didn't have the full picture, but it's not like their dislike of Quent was completely arbitrary; they believed that he was going to cheat a cousin that they loved and were much closer to out of her birthright.

Actually, they resented Quentyn mainly because he was fostered with Lord Yronwood as a conciliatory gesture after Oberyn killed a relative of his (His brother, IIRC) in a duel, earning him the title of Red Viper.

Plus, he was awkward and similar to Doran, and the Snakes can't stand someone like that.

[Lion of Judah]

Because he's a liberal bad***!

[Theda Baratheon]

Because he's a liberal bad***!

Awwwww yeee