Leif Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Yup. I see the the show as a different adaptation of the same story. Kinda like the Greek Myth movies based on Greek Myth epic poems. It's nice to see how the producers place their own spin on things and seeing everything onscreen is fun, but I'll always want to know the original source and to read the full story. Thus, I see no reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 OP - This is going to happen by next year in 2015 for season 5. The reason is that they will have to make a decision about if they put the Battle of Meereen in season 5 or if they delay this to be the climax of season 6; which would require them to drag out the series. It also risks Danys arc stagnating because the one memorable moment from ADWD is when she flies out of the pit on Drogon and the battle comes very soon after that event. Its unlikely that you could make an entire series out of Tyrion, Barristan and Victarions build up to the battle without it feeling like stagnation. Now, you could say "Oh but they'll just follow GRRM chronology and have it take place in early season 6". This isn't the battle of the fist where nothing changed and they could legitimately gloss over that battle. The Battle of Meereen is going to be the culmination of four POV characters arcs (Dany, Vic, Tyrion n Barri), was meant to be the climax of ADWD and from the preview chapters is at least as long as the Blackwater. Plus , dragons and the possibility of them being captured. Plus Dany probably flying in with an army of dothraki.This is obviously going to be an end of season finale on the show. Putting it earlier in a season would make little sense and it would go against how they've ran things for the other seasons. Now, again, you could say "Oh they might alter his chronology and put it at the end of season 6, but it'll take them 2 seasons at least to do all Crows and Dragons material so Winds of Winter will be out by then." The problem with this is that D&D have said that they are only going to do 7 seasons. If you think they can cram Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring material into one season; thats being extremely optimistic. Plus, everything we've seen since season 3 and what little we know of four suggests that everything is being geared towards covering a lot of Crows and Dragons material early on. They're introducing the Braavosi banker, the Cersei/Margery rivalry has been stressed, Littlefingers plan already revealed to us, Reek introduced and Bran already starting his dragons material. Danys arc is almost done with her ASOS material with only two chapters left. A recent casting rumor for a shephard who says the dragons are "out of control" suggests that we will see her chain her dragons. We also have Hidzhar being introduced. So everything to my mind suggests that they are going to cover AFFC and ADWD in one season next year. The end of season climax of that season will be the Battle of Meereen. They can't slot a finale battle like that into early season 6 (why would you even do that?) and if they're going so far ahead with the Crows and Dragons material it makes it very likely that this is their objective. I don't think they'll let Danys arc stagnate like GRRM does in ADWD and leave things on an unnatural cliffhanger. As early as next year in 2015 they will be past him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Dubh Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 OP - This is going to happen by next year in 2015 for season 5. The reason is that they will have to make a decision about if they put the Battle of Meereen in season 5 or if they delay this to be the climax of season 6 . . . The problem with this is that D&D have said that they are only going to do 7 seasons. So everything to my mind suggests that they are going to cover AFFC and ADWD in one season next year. The end of season climax of that season will be the Battle of Meereen. They can't slot a finale battle like that into early season 6 (why would you even do that?) and if they're going so far ahead with the Crows and Dragons material it makes it very likely that this is their objective. I don't think they'll let Danys arc stagnate like GRRM does in ADWD and leave things on an unnatural cliffhanger. As early as next year in 2015 they will be past him.I think you have some incorrect assumptions, and some bad information. I have read several times that D&D have said they are figuring about 80 hours, which is 8 seasons. Plus we just don't know enough about what happens in WOW to be certain they can't push it to the end of season 6 or have it occur mid season in season 6 . I am skeptical that the show could get through in maybe season and a third what GRRM couldn't get through in two big books. I think it is more likely that the battle of Meereen happens in season 6 than in season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If they did that then there wouldn't be a suitable cliffhanger. Dany flying off on Drogon happens only a few chapters before the battle commences. Theres no way that they could make an entire season with Tyrion, Barristan and Vics preparations for that battle. Plus, how could they have an entire season of Dany being stuck in the dothraki sea? They could invent some alternate climax for danys season 5 arc. But this is very unlikely and why bother when they know that Meereen is a weak story. The recent trailer shows a lot (indeed the majority) of material in Meereen with Dany as queen doing things she is meant to do in ADWD like the dealing with the burnt shepherds. You then have Theon in armor suggesting that this is when he convinces the garrison of Moat Calin to surrender. It will be very difficult to delay those characters arcs for two seasons. If they are surging forward with dragons material already it does not suggest that they are going to spend 2 whole seasons of Dany in Meereen. This will only make it look like her arc is stagnating and they would be walking into the same problems GRRM ran into. If they actually invent material to pad her dragons stuff out to 2 seasons and invent a seperate climax to season 5 then they will only bring accusations of dragging out the TV show. Most unsullied will not put up with her staying in Essos and out of the real story for very long. They won't take as long as GRRM. Most of that material is introspective monologue, repetitive dialogue, description and unnecessary travelogues. Much of this material can and should be cut. GRRM could EASILY have done it in one book if he had kept the Ironborn/Dornish as just a prologue chapter rather than a massive arc. If he hadn't written AFFC in which he bloated out the secondary characters arcs. If he had had realized he doesn't need a blow by blow travelogue of our character movements and hadn't beaten a dead horse with Danys arc. But number 1 is that he felt the plot needed to slow down and for us to take stock. It reads like the start of a new series rather than the continuation of an old one and he deliberately holds back anything happening until the very end when it all seizes up as a pile of cliffhangers. He has nobody to blame but himself for this predicament that the show will overtake him before he can write Winds of Winter. Um I've read the preview chapters. There are a lot of them. Believe me, it is a MASSIVE battle. There is no way that this can be glossed over as a mid season battle. It is the culmination of 4 character arcs. It is a multi chapter battle. This is not a small skirmish. This is end of season material. This is the battle which GRRM and his editors cut from ADWD because they are stupid or were possessed by madness. "Lets cut the big battle thats been built up over two books coz it needs to make way for Quentyn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If that were even to happen, I would without a second thought not watch the show and wait for the book. I don't see how any book-first fan could say anything different. Even if it results in me being spoiled, it is no different than spoiling myself by watching the show before reading the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If that were even to happen, I would without a second thought not watch the show and wait for the book. I don't see how any book-first fan could say anything different. Even if it results in me being spoiled, it is no different than spoiling myself by watching the show before reading the book. You'd have no way of telling. Since they're not following chronology and are mixing ASOS and ADWD material currently it makes it difficult to tell when the line will be crossed. You could be happily watching season 5 and then, shock, in episode 9 you get the battle of Meereen. I would watch it. I am not going to delay watching the show for GRRM sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Dubh Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Believe me, it is a MASSIVE battle. There is no way that this can be glossed over as a mid season battle. It is the culmination of 4 character arcs. It is a multi chapter battle. This is not a small skirmish.Which is why it should have a proper buildup, and may extend over multiple episodes, rather than be concluded in episode 9 of season 5. I just don't understand how some people can be so confident with their predictions when so much is unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Which is why it should have a proper buildup, and may extend over multiple episodes, rather than be concluded in episode 9 of season 5. I just don't understand how some people can be so confident with their predictions when so much is unknown. How could they cover two seasons of Meereen material? What would they fill it with and how could they provide any form of closure to season 5 in Danys arc? Nothing happens and a lot of it already has happened. They are gearing up to skip AFFC and ADWD because D&D are not stupid and know that books were terrible additions to the series. Why would you even want two seasons of Meereen? Its the weakest part of Danys arc and most pointless. Why on earth do you think that they would focus so much screen time to the weakest novels? Two seasons to build up a battle is stupid. GRRM may be on acid and think its okay to have two books to build things up and then a cliffhanger but HBO lives in the real world and knows that viewers can simply stop tuning in if the show gets boring. So why would they make two boring seasons. They are not out to vindicate GRRM or his two bad books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Dubh Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 "How could they cover two seasons of Meereen material? What would they fill it with and how could they provide any form of closure to season 5 in Danys arc?"I don't know that they will. I am just saying it is a possibility. Might be three seasons - Dany conquering it in season 4, ruling it in season 5, and defeating the armies attacking it in season 6. And the battle could come early in season six, or late. A lot depends on what all happens in WOW, and how D&D decide to plot it out. I do know that there is a lot that happens in the books prior to it, and I am skeptical that enough of them can happen prior to episode 9 of season 5 and make any sense. Especially when there are other story lines that need to be shown as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 "How could they cover two seasons of Meereen material? What would they fill it with and how could they provide any form of closure to season 5 in Danys arc?"I don't know that they will. I am just saying it is a possibility. Might be three seasons - Dany conquering it in season 4, ruling it in season 5, and defeating the armies attacking it in season 6. And the battle could come early in season six, or late. A lot depends on what all happens in WOW, and how D&D decide to plot it out. I do know that there is a lot that happens in the books prior to it, and I am skeptical that enough of them can happen prior to episode 9 of season 5 and make any sense. Especially when there are other story lines that need to be shown as well. Not really. Not a lot happens in AFFC or ADWD for any of the characters. Once they cut away most of the gristle and fat off its a very simple story. Tyrion and Vic on their way to Dany for the battle. Oh I see, 3 seasons they are going to ask the fickle Unsullied to watch Danys story stagnating and not going anywhere.... They are gearing up to blitz through AFFC/ADWD. There are things GRRM could get away with that a TV audience will not do. 3 seasons of nothing happening in one of their most popular and iconic characters arcs isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes, I can enjoy both the show and the books as separate mediums with the same story. Also, just because the show's creators know the general direction Martin was heading for, in adapting events to the screen there is always some necessary revision. I would still love the show for its magnificent performances and love the books for the richness of detail and prose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You'd have no way of telling. Since they're not following chronology and are mixing ASOS and ADWD material currently it makes it difficult to tell when the line will be crossed. You could be happily watching season 5 and then, shock, in episode 9 you get the battle of Meereen. I would watch it. I am not going to delay watching the show for GRRM sake. We would all certainly know if the show was ending before the last book came out. We would also likely know before hand when all of the TWOW is basically used up, and there's still more episodes to go. It would be major news to anyone who cares about ASOIAF. It would likely be talked about by DnD and GRRM. So in short, I disagree with your assessment of this potential situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why do you even want them to religiously follow GRRM broken chronology and spend 2 and a half seasons on ADWD? They should be cutting that pus out not trying to let it fester and grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Dubh Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why do you even want them to religiously follow GRRM broken chronology and spend 2 and a half seasons on ADWD?No one is suggesting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 "How could they cover two seasons of Meereen material? What would they fill it with and how could they provide any form of closure to season 5 in Danys arc?"I don't know that they will. I am just saying it is a possibility. Might be three seasons - Dany conquering it in season 4, ruling it in season 5, and defeating the armies attacking it in season 6. And the battle could come early in season six, or late. A lot depends on what all happens in WOW, and how D&D decide to plot it out. I do know that there is a lot that happens in the books prior to it, and I am skeptical that enough of them can happen prior to episode 9 of season 5 and make any sense. Especially when there are other story lines that need to be shown as well. You are. The new trailer for season 4 shows ADWD material and has characters from ADWD in it. So you are asking for 3 seasons on ADWD. Even suggesting that they do it in early season six to completely copy his structure of not providing a resolution to ADWD and deferring the climactic battle and resolution to the early next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Not really. Not a lot happens in AFFC or ADWD for any of the characters. Once they cut away most of the gristle and fat off its a very simple story. Tyrion and Vic on their way to Dany for the battle. Oh I see, 3 seasons they are going to ask the fickle Unsullied to watch Danys story stagnating and not going anywhere.... They are gearing up to blitz through AFFC/ADWD. There are things GRRM could get away with that a TV audience will not do. 3 seasons of nothing happening in one of their most popular and iconic characters arcs isn't going to happen. Yeah I agree with you on this. Some plotlines would become really uneventful and would drag if they were done over 3 seasons. There's a lot that can be done quickly and by pushing forward some stuff from the 4th and 5th book into season 3, it looks like they'll want to push forward a climatic moment from AFFC or ADWD for the 5th season, meaning they'll rap the rest of it up in the 6th season and then move onto TWOW. The show would lose a lot of it's audience if it spent 3 seasons on 2 books where the action is a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 If the show was still as good as it is now, I'd probably go ahead and watch it since if I didn't then I'd probably see some spoilers like I did with the books (which then convinced me to read them). I prefer the books overall, but I'd be alright with following the show to the finish anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Dubh Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You are. The new trailer for season 4 shows ADWD material and has characters from ADWD in it. So you are asking for 3 seasons on ADWD.Interspersed with material from three other books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This is hypothetical and very unrealistic. Producers are smart enough to avoid this situation. This was one of the factors that made ASOS to split into two seasons.Here's what i think will happen. Season 3 and 4 are ASOS. Some part of AFFC and ADWD may creep into the finale of season 4. Hopefully, Martin will get TWOW out before season 5 starts. Season 5 and 6 will consist of AFFC and ADWD. Season 7 will be TWOW and may even spill into season 8, depending on the size of the novel.So after TWOW is out by end of 2014 or early 2015, martin has atleast 3 (possibly more) to finish ADOS. I do not see that. I think that AFFC and ADWD will be completed by the end of next year, even if they have to add an hour or two to Season 5. Seasons after 6 will get prohibitively expensive so I expect them to finish the entire show no later than Season 7 and they may pull a Breaking Bad and have a 20 hour season 6 so they don't have to renegotiate the main characters contracts. I think if GRRM gets TWOW out this year he has a very good chance of finishing before the show. I suspect, just as in the case of Jordan the last portions are very well mapped out so easily written and he may already have some writing done on the end. To the original question, yes I would watch. The show has not diminished re-reads of the books so being "spoiled" by the show won't be a huge deal as the books will be more complicated and not follow exactly the same path, possibly quite a different one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairion Lannister Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 The other possible solution to season 5 would be if HBO gave them more episodes for that season, say around 13 or 14. It wouldn't solve the surpassing the books issue, but it'd make the season itself work better so you wouldn't have to delay the climactic moments, while still getting enough time to develop all of the plotlines and storylines properly and not rushing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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