The Sopranos (Spoilers)

[Maithanet]

IIRC, Carmela was hassling Tony about the building inspector, and not for the first time. Tony says that he sent Sil or Paulie to talk to the guy, with no results, and Carm says something to the effect that Tony wasn't really trying, the implication being--at the time I watched it--that if Tony was really trying, Paulie wouldn't have taken no for an answer. (I believe that this was in "Moe 'N Joe.") I haven't seen this episode in a few months, when I was doing my own rewatch, so I probably don't have all the details right.

I don't own season six, and it's been a long time since I saw that part, but that isn't really how I remember it. I thought it was more that Carmela asked if Tony could do anything about the building inspection, and then when that didn't work, Carmela became exasperated that what she saw as a minor detail was causing such a problem. Unrelated to the house construction, Carmela started thinking more about what happened to Adriana and started asking questions. So Tony made sure to solve this inspection problem so that Carmela would be too busy to worry about Adriana's disappearance. Which worked. Again, it's possible I'm remembering wrong, I didn't like season 6 much and only saw it once.

There were also plenty of cases where Carmela could have easily asked Tony to do violence for her, and she very clearly did not. For example, when Meadow's soccer coach turned out to be a pedophile and when the guy from AJ's school dumped her. Like with everybody on the show, it's a matter of degrees of complicity, but I do see Carmela as merely an enabler and benefactor of Tony's crimes, rather than a clear co-conspirator like Janice and Livia.

[Mark Antony]

I don't own season six, and it's been a long time since I saw that part, but that isn't really how I remember it. I thought it was more that Carmela asked if Tony could do anything about the building inspection, and then when that didn't work, Carmela became exasperated that what she saw as a minor detail was causing such a problem. Unrelated to the house construction, Carmela started thinking more about what happened to Adriana and started asking questions. So Tony made sure to solve this inspection problem so that Carmela would be too busy to worry about Adriana's disappearance. Which worked. Again, it's possible I'm remembering wrong, I didn't like season 6 much and only saw it once.

Yeha he only got Silvio to "lean" on the inspector after Carmela started asking questions about Adriana even going as far as trying to get Tony to hire a private investigator iirc.

[Castel]

Very true. I think I meant it more in terms of their actions. Tony gets his hands dirty to provide them with all that money. Carmella just sits around being bored with her kept lifestyle. At some point in her life her goal was to hook up with someone who'd give her a life of comfort and she's mad at the fact it's not everything it's cracked up to be. I can't remember all the details (haven't watched it since it aired) but I'm sure there were several occasions where she could have walked and she stays more for the financial comfort (and probably the kids). In defence of the character i never had a problem with her affairs other than the fact she knew she was putting their lives at risk by doing so. Tony did it all the time so it seemed "fair"

Carmela's plot after her separation would probably be terrible to rewatch. You can see her rationalizing her problems away. She goes to people she knows will tell her that she can't divorce her husband. I find it hard to believe that she bought that it was morally preferable to stay with Tony than to leave, take her kids and try to start a new life.

I don't really have that much sympathy for people like Carm who lived with and off mobsters for years or even decades and enjoyed their position and benefits and then later came out and complained when things went wrong. Adriana perhaps gets a pass because she was in an impossible situation but Carm had a million chances to leave Tony and didn't. And when people judge her based on her decisions she cries and talks about how everyone will now judge her because she was married to a sociopath. Yeah? So?

One of the things about this show is that everyone is an asshole but they're all convinced that they're saints. Everything is rationalised away. Everything is someone else's fault. You half blind a man? "He shouldn't have been talking shit anyway". The Pastor lets a woman speak about how the Mafia gives Italians a bad name? Well the Pastor is clearly an asshole. Poverty of the Mezzogiorno? Really Meadow? I just want to fucking shake everyone on this show till their consciences reboot.

[Maithanet]

Did anyone else find the final twist of Meadow wanting to protect the family and become a mob lawyer a bit out of character? I remember being pretty unsatisfied by it, since she always seemed to have relatively open eyes about who her father was and what that really meant. She was worried about Tony killing her soccer coach in season 1, she was super pissed when Tony gave her the SUV that had belonged her friend's father (who had a gambling problem) in season 2, she was disgusted by all the crocodile tears everyone was shedding at the end of season 3 when Jackie Jr. died.

Until season 6, she was pretty consistently disgusted with all the crimes and duplicity in her family, and yet she apparently wants to be a part of those lies as her profession? And to have her kids intimately connected to that lifestyle? It just didn't seem to fit with the Meadow character they had been building for five seasons.

[Castel]

Did anyone else find the final twist of Meadow wanting to protect the family and become a mob lawyer a bit out of character? I remember being pretty unsatisfied by it, since she always seemed to have relatively open eyes about who her father was and what that really meant. She was worried about Tony killing her soccer coach in season 1, she was super pissed when Tony gave her the SUV that had belonged her friend's father (who had a gambling problem) in season 2, she was disgusted by all the crocodile tears everyone was shedding at the end of season 3 when Jackie Jr. died.

Until season 6, she was pretty consistently disgusted with all the crimes and duplicity in her family, and yet she apparently wants to be a part of those lies as her profession? And to have her kids intimately connected to that lifestyle? It just didn't seem to fit with the Meadow character they had been building for five seasons.

Well, over time she did start defending her family, with that "Poverty of the Mezziogiorno" bullshit.

But iirc she never planned to be a mob lawyer, she simply went to a prestigious law firm (maybe off the back of Tony's connections). She went into law to follow her boyfriend iirc.

[Maithanet]

Well, over time she did start defending her family, with that "Poverty of the Mezziogiorno" bullshit.

But iirc she never planned to be a mob lawyer, she simply went to a prestigious law firm (maybe off the back of Tony's connections). She went into law to follow her boyfriend iirc.

I just remember being disgusted when she started standing up for her family against the injustice of the feds trying to build a case against him, and that was part of her reasoning for wanting to go into law. It seemed very contrary to her character to that point.

[Castel]

I just remember being disgusted when she started standing up for her family against the injustice of the feds trying to build a case against him, and that was part of her reasoning for wanting to go into law. It seemed very contrary to her character to that point.

Hm. I don't remember that. But I remember he being disgusted by the Feds fucking over some Middle-Eastern family. But regardless, over time she probably became corrupted. It's how things seem to work there. Being mad about something your family did (only when it negatively impacted you) doesn't prevent you from closing ranks against outsiders. Meadow was never mad in general , only when it was shoved in her face iirc.

[Maithanet]

I mean, I get it, with Meadow's character. She was always practical when it came to her family. She knew that Jackie Jr. wasn't killed in just some random drug trade gone wrong, that he had gotten killed by associates of her father. She wasn't willing or ready to divorce herself completely from the Sopranos family becuase that is really hard to do when you are so young, so she mostly put it out of her mind. But I felt like most of her development in the show was to have her eventually break away from the Family and make her own life (as opposed to AJ who only occasionally toyed with real independence).

[Guest]

No doubt that Ralph is the single most revolting human being on a show full of them, but did he burn down the stable? Its been a while since I've seen that episode but IIRC Chase and co were very careful not to resolve that (like they did with so many storylines I suppose; what ever happened to the Russian?).

I think biggest POS on The Sopranos is one of those great questions kind of like best QB ever. There are just so many arguments.

Ralph is indeed one revolting mf, but worse than Richie?

[Maithanet]

I think biggest POS on The Sopranos is one of those great questions kind of like best QB ever. There are just so many arguments.

Ralph is indeed one revolting mf, but worse than Richie?

Or Livia for that matter? I mean, she never actually killed anyone herself (although she schemed to make it happen several times). She was also uniformly awful to everyone, utterly devoid of charm, humor or sentiment.

I think that her real life death was the end of the Sopranos greatness. It hung on for quite a while longer as a very good show, but it never recaptured the family tension of the first two seasons. And the drama of Livia testifying against Tony...no idea how it really would have gone, but it sounds absolutely epic.

[Relic]

I think biggest POS on The Sopranos is one of those great questions kind of like best QB ever. There are just so many arguments.

Really? In my mind it isn't even up for debate. Tony Soprano is the true evil on this show, and the biggest scumbag by far.

[Francis Buck]

Really? In my mind it isn't even up for debate. Tony Soprano is the true evil on this show, and the biggest scumbag by far.

We also had an entire show devoted to him, so we saw all the little intricacies of his shittiness. Even so, I find it very hard to say that he's any worse than someone like Ralphie or Richie.

[Mathis]

I mean, I get it, with Meadow's character. She was always practical when it came to her family. She knew that Jackie Jr. wasn't killed in just some random drug trade gone wrong, that he had gotten killed by associates of her father.

Meadow had no idea about how Jackie died, and when she was told by Jackie's younger sister ("wake the fuck up Meadow; Jackie was killed by some fat fuck in see through socks!"), she rejected it.

She wasn't willing or ready to divorce herself completely from the Sopranos family becuase that is really hard to do when you are so young, so she mostly put it out of her mind. But I felt like most of her development in the show was to have her eventually break away from the Family and make her own life (as opposed to AJ who only occasionally toyed with real independence).

I thought they did a good job in later seasons of showing her perspective aligning with that of her family's. Like her ludicrous outrage when her father got hassled by the police or FBI, or when Johnny Sack had to pay to intsall metal dectectors at his daughter's wedding.

Really? In my mind it isn't even up for debate. Tony Soprano is the true evil on this show, and the biggest scumbag by far.

I don't know, it seems like everything bad about Tony is true for Ralph, plus Ralph had other habits and attitudes that even Tony never showed. Richie would be another candidate I suppose. Its a tough field.

[Mark Antony]

Meadow had no idea about how Jackie died,

IDK, The final scene of Season 3 where she is being an idiot at Vesuvios when Uncle Junior was singing then she storms out and runs away from Tony made me think she definitely had an idea who was behind it

We also had an entire show devoted to him, so we saw all the little intricacies of his shittiness. Even so, I find it very hard to say that he's any worse than someone like Ralphie or Richie.

On The Sopranos even The FBI are complete scumbags

[Castel]

On The Sopranos even The FBI are complete scumbags

Which is something I never got. Why did that FBI agent help Tony and then say:"We're gonna win this thing!"? I don't think there was any sign of him being corrupt before that.

[Maithanet]

IDK, The final scene of Season 3 where she is being an idiot at Vesuvios when Uncle Junior was singing then she storms out and runs away from Tony made me think she definitely had an idea who was behind it

Yeah, she never comes out and says it, but scenes like that one certainly indicate that she knew.

On The Sopranos even The FBI are complete scumbags

No real reason why they wouldn't be. It's just their power trip is a 9-5 gig.

If we're really talking about which character on Sopranos is the "worst" human being, I think we are going to spend much of the time arguing about what worst really means. Does Tony's greater power, influence and longevity make him "worse" than Richie Aprile? Is Hermann Goering worse than Amon Goethe?

[Mark Antony]

Phil Leotardo is up there on the POS list. He's also probably my favorite character introduced after Season 1.

[Mathis]

On The Sopranos even The FBI are complete scumbags

They are? How so?

Which is something I never got. Why did that FBI agent help Tony and then say:"We're gonna win this thing!"? I don't think there was any sign of him being corrupt before that.

I read somewhere that it was a callback to the real world relationship between the FBI and Whitey Bulger in Boston.IDK if its bullshit.

Its possibly explainable within the show as Tony is a source of info for the FBI, so they would want him alive. Also, while being extremely unethical, is it really the same as being corrupt?

[Castel]

They are? How so?

I read somewhere that it was a callback to the real world relationship between the FBI and Whitey Bulger in Boston.IDK if its bullshit.

Its possibly explainable within the show as Tony is a source of info for the FBI, so they would want him alive. Also, while being extremely unethical, is it really the same as being corrupt?

They leaked information to a member of the Mafia that they knew would lead to him killing someone else. That agent knowingly got someone murdered.

Yeah, I've heard that it's a callback, I just don't see how it made sense.

As for Phil, I didn't see him as much worse that Tony tbh,but yeah, YMMV on this discussion.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

IDK, The final scene of Season 3 where she is being an idiot at Vesuvios when Uncle Junior was singing then she storms out and runs away from Tony made me think she definitely had an idea who was behind it

I think she had an idea for a while. But it's a hard thing to turn your back on your family and basically everybody you knew growing up, and Meadow wasn't ultimately willing to go as far as she needed to, so she rationalized away what she already knew about Jackie, Jr.'s death. By season five she had pushed that knowledge down into a deep, deep hole. Remember when Finn sees that guy get brutally assaulted by Eugene Pontecorvo? Meadow goes right up to the line of calling Finn a liar, and calls Eugene a sweetheart.