Melifeather Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 What if when Stark's die they join the White Walkers? I already suspect that the White Walkers are creatures from the death realm, and so to say that there is a special cold hell reserved for Starks....well, it could be that this is what happens to them. Two traditions were started to prevent Starks for joining White Walkers: 1) iron swords over their tombs, 2) boiling the dead down to their bones, a la Silent Sister style. The tombs themselves may be a portal.If there were tunnels leading from Winterfell to north of the Wall, they'd be incredibly long. It takes over 18 days to travel from Winterfell to the Wall by horse. No human would survive underground in those passages. There just wouldn't be enough oxygen. However, the undead may be able to traverse such conditions, and it may also be the reason why Bran and company didn't use an underground route, for if mortal men could use such a passage, surely Bloodraven and the Children would have directed them there.I think I would prefer it if Benjen remained a mystery. Not that I didn't like the character, because I do, but it seems more frustratingly interesting if we never find out what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 There's certainly some kind of connection and the swords business is pretty mainstream bind-them-in-their-graves stuff. we did discuss earlier how it was the marrowbone that was the important bit in "remembering" so the swords will only be necessary to keep them there until the bones themselves dry out and decay.I'm not so sure about the boiling though, that was pretty standard mediaeval (and often post-mediaeeval) practice if bodies needed to be moved any great distance from the place of death to wherever they were to be buried, avoided all sorts of embarrassments from leakage to the occasional bursting guts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Oh no this feels like it's leading towards Feather's super crackpot theory on King Jon Stark having been a Snow who usurped the throne :cool4: Nuh i'm going more biological on this one; remember how i keep saying that Jon was a plant into the Stark litter so to speak . I almost got it; it just needs a bit of tweaking.I have to confer with my Genetics professor. Not that i'm saying GRRM would go so scientific but it does kind of reminds me of the 1st Underworld movie along with another folkloric story that formed the basis for my ubber crackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The Stark mantra could be the same as death is coming."Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. Sooner die fighting for Ned’s girl than alone and hungry in the snow. "I mentioned that if Arya does die, winter (death) could be saying to spring that she belongs to him.Spring is when things start to flourish and grow so it's life.An endless summer that is associated with AA also seems to be a period that celebrates life.Does anyone know what season Lyanna died in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 @Wolfmaid: I await with interest, although in general terms I'd be wary of overcomplicating things. I think its viable to draw parallels with the story of Bael the Bard and there are after all the blue roses clues which pretty conclusively point to him as the son of Lyanna. Although I remain firmly of the belief that this rather than any presumed Targaryen blood will be the critical factor in what's to come, I'm not really sure that a father other than Rhaegar will make sense in story-telling terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 An endless summer that is associated with AA also seems to be a period that celebrates life.The endless summer predicted by Master Benero didn't sound too inviting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Endless summer or a frozen hell - take your pick Westeros!I'm kidding, of course - it's the two opposites that need to balance out...ETA: Oh and, I smell Heresy 44... btw, GRRM has also shared the trailer and added "Lots more to come." Hurrah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Does anyone know what season Lyanna died in?I've had a bit of a rummage and can't find anything specific but it must have been pretty late in the year given that the Targaryen fleet was destroyed by a great storm at about the same time and that the blue roses associated with Lyanna at her death are winter roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I've had a bit of a rummage and can't find anything specific but it must have been pretty late in the year given that the Targaryen fleet was destroyed by a great storm at about the same time and that the blue roses associated with Lyanna at her death are winter roses.Yes. I know the Tourney was the year of the false spring and that was maybe 2 years before so she may have died in winter if it was still going on but I'm not sure.The point on the roses is good because clearly he was able to get them for her although the glass house thing may make them able to have flowers out of season. I'm not a flower expert so I'm a bit iffy on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm still catching up on previous posts, but just a quick question:There was a post on Benjen, if not dead, maybe being kept as a prisoner of some kind by a patron/protector... so, are the patrons the Others/Sidhe, and are they keeping Benjen with them to have a Stark there when Jon eventually comes to the Lands of Alwas Winter, as a go between and a family member that may know more of the Stark family secrets (speculating here of course) so Jon would trust the Others more? So he wouldn't just take their word for it, but also hear it from uncle Benjen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Winter Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 IMO, there are a lot of things like the Musgrave ritual in ASOIAF. For example, the Targaryen's motto "Fire and Blood," isn't only a description of the Targ temperament, it's the short-form formula for hatching dragon's eggs. I'm sure the Drowned God's mantra "what is dead never dies but rises again, harder and stronger," describes wights, while any practical knowledge about dealing with the wights has been lost. Just wanted to say that I really, really like those thoughts SS#9 (sheesh...that one went right over my head.... :frown5: ). "Winter is Coming" is not only a warning about the approach of the season, but about the approach of the King of Winter. It's a great battle cry. WINTER! IS! COMING!And I can't wait until we see this happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theriveryeti Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm still catching up on previous posts, but just a quick question:There was a post on Benjen, if not dead, maybe being kept as a prisoner of some kind by a patron/protector... so, are the patrons the Others/Sidhe, and are they keeping Benjen with them to have a Stark there when Jon eventually comes to the Lands of Alwas Winter, as a go between and a family member that may know more of the Stark family secrets (speculating here of course) so Jon would trust the Others more? So he wouldn't just take their word for it, but also hear it from uncle Benjen?Since it's been stated that we'll see a lot further north (and my guess is that it will be from Jon's POV), I wouldn't be surprised to see Benjen thrown back into the mix there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfyre Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 On balance I'm having trouble with him simply because he's been away from the story for too long.Yes, it's... awkward from a narrative standpoint. Consider: It has been more than 15 years since GRRM so much as wrote a page in which Benjen showed his face or said a word.Along much the same lines, I wonder how the R+L=J camp feels about the fact that Rhaegar was never mentioned a single time in the entire second season of the show.If Rhaegar is eventually revealed dramatically as Jon's father, the HBO viewership is likely to say: "Rhaegar who?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armidil0 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I like Jon being a 'plant' into the Stark family. Fits in with my pet theory that Ghost was given to Jon by the Others. While the other children got theirs from BR.I give this thread til 3:30pm central before H44 is up. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yes, it's... awkward from a narrative standpoint. Consider: It has been more than 15 years since GRRM so much as wrote a page in which Benjen showed his face or said a word.Along much the same lines, I wonder how the R+L=J camp feels about the fact that Rhaegar was never mentioned a single time in the entire second season of the show.If Rhaegar is eventually revealed dramatically as Jon's father, the HBO viewership is likely to say: "Rhaegar who?"Quite. In show time Benjen has been lost and forgotten since the second episode of series 1. Likewise Rhaegar is so far out of it that only the linking of Jon to Lyanna rather than Ned will sit easily with the plot. Being the son of Ned's sister is going to be a lot easier for the non-reading public to grasp than being the son of who?And that in turn strengthens our suspicions that ultimately its more important that he's the son of Lyanna Stark than the lost heir to the Targaryen throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 I like Jon being a 'plant' into the Stark family. Fits in with my pet theory that Ghost was given to Jon by the Others. While the other children got theirs from BR.I give this thread til 3:30pm central before H44 is up. ;)Agreed on the first and as for the second, close enough. As this'll be post 396 I'll launch Heresy 44 just as soon as I've tucked junior junior in bed for the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Are you sure Daenerys never mentioned her brother Rhaegar on the show? Or Rhaegars rubies mentioned when Arya and co crossed the Trident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 If I remember rightly we did have Ser Jorah delivering his Rhaegar was good, Rhaegar died speech, but otherwise he hasn't really featured in the show, so unless there's a really big retrospective leading up to it, tell the viewers that Jon is really the son of Rhaegar and everybody, Jon included is going to say "Who?"And with that Heresy 44 is open for business so please direct further correspondence accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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