Official Court of Law v 8, Daenerys Targaryen

[Daario's*before*Snows]

Im ok with beheading by sword although ill most likely never sentence it. I can only think of a couple people i would consider it for depending on what they are charged with.,

[Petyr Baller]

I don't know if this forum was not modded and you could pass rape as a punishment how many of you would support it.

In real life, sentencing someone to serve a prison term is sentencing them to be raped.

[the trees have eyes]

1. Four Counts of Murder:-

1.1 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully killed a godswife, Mirri Maz Duur, by ordering her to be tied to her husband’s funeral pyre, and then burning her alive.

Not guilty. MMD fatally poisoned the defendant's husband by causing the infection of a minor wound and later murdered her unborn son in her womb by use of blood magic. Neither Westerosi nor Dothraki law specify that only certain methods of carrying out a capital sentence are permitted as is proven by

i) Stannis Barratheon's execution of numerous criminals by burning

ii) Khal Drogo's sentence of death for

a) a certain poisoner masquerading as a wine-seller: execution by being dragged behind a horse until dead

B) Viserys Targaryen for breaking the sacred laws of Vaes Dothrak and threatening the life of the defendant and her unborn son: execution by smothering in molten gold.

Charge found to be spurious (if not malicious slander) and dismissed.

1.2 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully killed Kraznys mo Nakloz, a citizen of Astapor by instructing her dragon, Drogon, to burn him to death, which instruction was carried out.

Not guilty. The laws of Westeros do not permit one man to own another. The defendant is revolted by the barbarity and inhumanity of the slave-owning culture and practices of Slaver's Bay and has undertaken to dismantle this rotten and reprehensible system by conquest and to institute the legal system of Westeros, a flawed but markedly more humane system, in its place.

The nominated victim, KMN for short is a grand master and chief salver in this vile stew of a city who reveals that he condones, if not orders, inter alia

i) the castration of thousands of male children

ii) the murder of thousands of infants by these brainwashed Unsullied who must tear the infant from his/her mother's grasp and kill the child in front of his/her mother.

KMN is found guilty of these crimes and his execution is found warranted. See 1.1 for the legality of the manner of execution. Charge dismissed.

1.3 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully ordered her soldiers to kill a citizen of Astapor, Grazdan mo Ullor, and to massacre the adult free male inhabitants of Astapor, which order was carried out.

For the execution of GMO see 1.2. Charge dismissed.

For the massacre of the adult free male inhabitants of Astapor, the judge requests additional evidence be gathered and presented. The judge is not convinced that the defendant ordered such a wholesale slaughter or that such slaughter in fact occurred but the charge is too serious to be discounted. The judge moves that this charge be filed separately to the matter of GMO and that the defendant be retried on this charge.

1.4 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully crucified 163 of the Great Masters of Mereen.

See 1.2 and 1.3. Charge dismissed. The judge notes his disapproval of the cruelty of the punishment and deplores the defendant's decision to proceed in this manner. The collective guilt of the Great Masters for the crucifixion of the 163 slave children is not accepted as an established fact or guiding principle but the collective guilt of the masters for the practice of slavery (see 1.2) is accepted as an established fact.

Nonetheless this is not Astapor where the Unsullied were "trained" so the court warrants that the identity of the 163 Great Masters be uncovered and their treatment of their slaves be investigated. The family of any of the 163 Masters who is found not to have murdered or mutilated a slave will receive an apology and blood money as a measure (albeit an inadequate one) of compensation

2. One Count of Genocide.

The massacre of the adult free males of Astapor, detailed in charge 1.3, amounted to the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

The judge is deeply concerned about the allegations of slaughter and has ordered an investigation and retrial (1.3). Depending on the finding on that charge an investigation on this charge may be warranted but at this time is an allegation not a proven or disporven fact and no verdict is possible.

3. Four Counts of Torture

3.1 The burning of Mirri Maz Duur, detailed in charge 1.1, amounted to torture.

Charge dismissed. See 1.1. The court can itself pass a similar sentence. Also, this judge has no wish to be tried for exercising his legitimate authority and suggests he has no wish to be a candidate for a Darwin award.

3.2 The crucifixion of the Great Masters, detailed in charge 1.4, amounted to torture.

Charge dismissed. See 1.1, 1.4 ad 3.2

3.3 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully ordered two wineseller’s daughters to be tortured in front of her father, in order to procure information relating to the Sons of the Harpy.

Guilty. The Court moves that monetary compensation be paid to the wine-seller's daughters (or the wine-seller himself if the children are minors) in proportion to the mental distress and physical suffering of the plaintiffs.

If the plaintiffs suffered permanent injury or mutilation the Court finds a charge of mis-governance and possible impeachment to be appropriate.

3.4 The Defendant, intentionally and unlawfully ordered numerous unnamed inhabitants of Mereen to be tortured, on suspicion that they were Sons of the Harpy.

Charge dismissed. Charge has not been proven and is found to be too vague to be established in any meaningful way. The Court notes that it finds the torture of innocents to prompt a confession from a third party to be unacceptable but the "sharp questioning" of those believed to be guilty to be within the compass of the ruler's authority.

4. Two Counts of Criminal Damage to Property.

4.1 The Defendant unlawfully and intentionally set fire to the House of the Undying in Qarth, resulting in its destruction.

Charge found to be spurious (if not outright malicious slander) and dismissed. The Undying tricked the defendant into entering their premises, wherein they drugged and attempted to murder her. The defendant's pet (and how wrong does that description feel :lol: ) intervened and manged to save her life. The damage caused to the property of the attempted murderers by the defendant's pet is considered a hazard of their actions and no charge against the defendant is considered even remotely serious.

4.2 The Defendant unlawfully and intentionally sacked the City of Mereen, resulting in millions of Dragons’ worth of destruction to property.

Charge dismissed. See 1.2

5. Two counts of Waging Wars of Aggression

5.1 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully waged a war of aggression against Yunkai

Charge dismissed. See 1.2. The judge also notes that he found the scene when the freed slaves of Yunkai called the defendant "Mysha" to be particularly touching and that to call this emancipation a war of aggression is an egregious folly.

5.2 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully waged a war of aggression against Mereen

Charge dismissed. See 1.2 and 5.1.

In summary, charges are dismissed and the judge would like to offer the defendant his commiserations on the loss of her husband and son (he admits he is also a bit relieved about both those things though this is not something he intends to say out loud) and hopes that she will carry on kicking slaver butt.

A further investigation into the sack of Astapor and the charges under 1.3( B) and 2 is however recommended. The defendant is free to continue ruling Meereen in the meantime.

[Yukle]

Im ok with beheading by sword although ill most likely never sentence it. I can only think of a couple people i would consider it for depending on what they are charged with.,

The man who passes judgement should swing the sword. How many could actually do the things they voted for, I wonder? Even if they lived in Westeros, does anyone have the sheer apathy needed to flay someone? The ruthless evil?

[Pod The Impaler]

Daenerys killed Drogo. And Drogo failed to follow MMD's medical advice. How was MMD at fault?

Left him in a permanant vegitative state.

Actually, this was one of the harder verdicts for me. As Khaleesi Dany has the right to put to death people if she wishes. Yet, this belief in the chain of events is from Dany's perspective.

Truthfully, I think she blames MMD for that, and Rhaego, more than MMD actually deserved. (Drogo took off the medicinal poultice, Dany got her to use black magic, Jorah carried her into the tent.)

Still, curious reaction from MMD, since when confronted by Dany about it, MMD just says the equivalent of "yeah, I feel no guilt about doing it", rather than a denial that it was her fault. So it lends credence to the semi-crackpot theory that the poultice was not actually medicine but rather something designed to cause a fatal infection.

[Pod The Impaler]

Alternatively, a clever lawyer might point out a well-attested family history of mental illness, and advise her to plead insanity.

:lol: Quaithe = the result of schizophrenia.

[danm_999]

I didn't see the topic that day. I think you could see I was only posting in a few topics.

And just why don't you trust me with what I say? It's bewildering to me.

Well, it was at the top of the General that day.

And I'm generally distrustful because SeanF and LionofJudah have spent lots of time/effort running this thing, and it's only now at the Daenerys trial people (and I'm not singling you out BTW, because others are doing this here too) are making noises about how unfair this is 8 iterations in.

I'm also skeptical because as I said, the legal objections being made aren't very sound.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

I like the idea of a seperate thread to discuss the court protocal.

[Pod The Impaler]

Dany is an interesting case for us, not because of the horror factor of her actions, but because once again we're going into the territory of "victor's justice".

The conqueror own makes their own law, punishing the "crimes" of the conquered. The conquered (what's left of them) consider as murder and theft the destruction of their ruling priveleges, the regime they had set up to their own benefit.

Real history has seen a lot of this. We can all judge what was "just or unjust" in our own opinion, but the judgement of "legal or illegal" often depends on the outcome of armed conflict.

Take Eddard bwing sentenced to death for the "treason" of trying to stop an illegitimate bastard from claiming the throne in a coup. And that was following the accidental death murder of the King - a King who was legitimate by right of conquest in the first place, by winning a rebellion where the previous king, crown prince, and crown prince's family were all killed. You win ---> bing bang boom, you are a liberator, not a traitor or invader or something.

GRRM is clever, in that he shows us in ASOIAF how often the law bends to the reality of power. Like Tyrion's marriages being made or unmade at Tywin's command, Jaime being in the Kingsguard after killing Aerys, Robb being King In The North, Ramsay marrying "Arya", etc. Dany's accused of crimes against a power structure many would consider unjust and inherently criminal in its own right - to the extent that her power can legitimize her actions, it is legitimate. If she wins, the law sides with her. If she loses, it condemns her.

These trials we have are nice for exploring this concept, beyond just being for or against a character.

[SeanF]

In real life, sentencing someone to serve a prison term is sentencing them to be raped.

It is if you get sent to Oswald State Penitentiary.

[Walder Waters]

The Court's President decided that the current rules remain effective for the pending action against Daenerys Targaryen.

The Court's President may start a thread regarding the future Court's rules after this case has finished.

I appeal for the judges and the observers of the proceedings to delay the discussion regarding the rules as well as the behavior of judges for the more general thread.

[SeanF]

Many thanks

[Thendel]

I'm sorry that I said that. You're right, I was carried away. I apologize.

Thank you for admitting to it, so you're forgiven in my book. But no worries, I for one am fully aware of the point you were (and are) trying to make: That we should all be careful to only sentence the criminals to punishments proportional to the crime. And while I can do nothing but agree on that principle, I do not think people here are that bloodthirsty, especially considering most've found Daenerys' reasons for murdering 163 people unlawful.

[Lion of Judah]

1.1 Not Guilty -Mirri Maz Duur: the allegedvictim in question was burnt as punishment for crimes she committed against Daenerys Targaryen. She claimed to have skill in the healing arts which was misleading in the least and meant to disguise to true murderous intent.

1.2 Dismissed- Kraznys Mo Nakloz: Mister Kraznys long violated the human rights of children, women, and men alike. The knowledge of these transgression was not brought to light until Daenerys entertained a business relationship with the victim. As any just figure of authority would have, Daenerys deemed his atrocious acts punishable by death.

1.3 Dismissed-I site the laws of conquest, during such unfortunate events people are killed, it is a brutal and unfortunate circumstance. Which in this case served the greater good.

1.4 Dismissed- This was a consequence of losing the war, they shouldn't have lost.

2. Not Guilty- The assault was directed at a ruling business establishment not an ethnic or religious group. I also request that this court provide sufficient evidence that these acts were a result of Daenerys Targaryens orders. When the Butcher King petitioned Daenerys in Meereen he claimed that the council she left in charge sort to undermine the stability she established and thus his reason for overthrowing them. This is testimony that there was no trail of bodies in the city of Astophor when Daenerys left. There is no way of tying her to these crimes.

3.1 Dismissed- Mirri Maz Duur offered her service to Daenerys giving recognition to her status and position as Khaleesi and thereby subjecting herself to Daenerys' authority. She survived by that authority and was subsequently judged and punished by that authority.

3.2 Dismissed- They are subjected to rules of war, Daenerys lawfully conquered the city and punished its ruling class as the victor of the war.

3.3 Guilty- I order that she compensate the family 500,000 gold dragons

3.4 Dismissed-This charge stands on very shaky ground. Who were the individuals tortured?

4.1 Dismissed- She was the victim of an unprovoked attack by the Undying Ones.

4.2 Dismissed- She won the war

5.1 Dismissed- Daenerys is no different from any revolutionary, she effectively broke the chains of bondage holding many to the will of slavers.

5.2 Dismissed-See 5.1

[Dolorous Nedd]

That's a neat trick: Smother your husband, get to burn one advisor for free.

He was a zombie when she smothered him. It was the humane thing to do.

[TheGreyKraken]

1.)

1.1- Not Guilty- Daenerys has every right to kill Mirri Maz Duur due to her killing the unborn child and putting Drogo in a vegetative state.

1.2- Not Guilty- Daenerys chose to attack Astapor and abolish slavery, Kraznys was killed as punishment for crimes he committed.

1.3- Guilty- Some of the people Daenerys had killed were not people involved in conflict and were merely citizens.

1.4- Dismissal Vote- This was a casualty of war and revenge for children murdered.

2.) Dismissal vote- Basically same charge as 1.3

3.)

3.1- Not Guilty- Has the right to get rid of her as she pleases due to the expanse of betrayal done.

3.2- Dismissal Vote

3.3- Guilty

3.4- Dismissal Vote

4.)

4.1- Dismissal Vote- attacked first and experienced an attempt on her life by inhabitants of property.

4.2- Dismissal Vote- Was at war with Meereen at the time and has the right to sack it if she pleases.

5.)

5.1- Dismissal vote- Can wager war with who she pleases

5.2- Dismissal vote- Can wager war with who she pleases

Momentary fine of 10,000 gold dragons.

[( Bloodraven )]

1. Four Counts of Murder.

1.1 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully killed a godswife, Mirri Maz Duur, by ordering her to be tied to her husband’s funeral pyre, and then burning her alive.

Dismissed

1.2 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully killed Kraznys mo Nakloz, a citizen of Astapor by instructing her dragon, Drogon, to burn him to death, which instruction was carried out.

Guilty

1.3 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully ordered her soldiers to kill a citizen of Astapor, Grazdan mo Ullor, and to massacre the adult free male inhabitants of Astapor, which order was carried out.

Guilty

1.4 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully crucified 163 of the Great Masters of Mereen.

Guilty

2. One Count of Genocide.

The massacre of the adult free males of Astapor, detailed in charge 1.3, amounted to the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

Guilty

3. Four Counts of Torture

3.1 The burning of Mirri Maz Duur, detailed in charge 1.1, amounted to torture.

Guilty

3.2 The crucifixion of the Great Masters, detailed in charge 1.4, amounted to torture.

Guilty

3.3 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully ordered two wineseller's daughters to be tortured in front of her father, in order to procure information relating to the Sons of the Harpy.

Guilty

3.4 The Defendant, intentionally and unlawfully ordered numerous unnamed inhabitants of Mereen to be tortured, on suspicion that they were Sons of the Harpy.

Guilty

4. Two Counts of Criminal Damage to Property.

4.1 The Defendant unlawfully and intentionally set fire to the House of the Undying in Qarth, resulting in its destruction.

Not guilty. Self defense.

4.2 The Defendant unlawfully and intentionally sacked the City of Mereen, resulting in millions of Dragons' worth of destruction to property.

Guilty

5. Two counts of Waging Wars of Aggression

5.1 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully waged a war of aggression against Yunkai

Not guilty

5.2 The Defendant intentionally and unlawfully waged a war of aggression against Mereen

Not guilty

The defendant is hereby sentenced to death by sword.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

It's so funny when you can pick the Daenerys-lovers here.

Granted, and some haters. Dislikers, I'd say.

[Walder Waters]

It's so funny when you can pick the Daenerys-lovers here.

Granted, and some haters. Dislikers, I'd say.

It broke my heart to judge her, but I tried to judge her fairly but also objectively. Not the easiest thing to do and not the easiest sentence to pass... :crying:

[the trees have eyes]

It's so funny when you can pick the Daenerys-lovers here.

Granted, and some haters. Dislikers, I'd say.

The "Court" is intending to pass sentences up to and including death. I don't think you have to be a "Dany lover" to be a bit uncomfortable with this kind of absolute judgment often based on a few ambiguous lines of text.

But it would help if people posted their reasons. The flip side of the "lovers" are the "haters" sentencing her to death without any explanation. It seems a strange court where the charge sheet is taken as the evidence rather than merely the accusation :stillsick: