Boarders Writing a Novel: Take 8

[Francis Buck]

Have you thought about writing a standalone in the same world to use as a taster?

I've considered it, but I really don't want to spend too much time in the same world. I get bored with my ideas way too easily, so even a two-parter is going to require some effort for me stay focused (fortunately I think I like the story enough that it won't be too much of a problem).

I also like the idea of creating very rich worlds, with complex histories and cultures, and then only spending a little bit of time there before moving on. I like allowing there to be a lot mystery surrounding it. Now, I do plan on writing a five part fantasy in the future (like, 10 years from now), but aside from that and my aforementioned duology, I want to stay away from an extended series of any kind. Most of my stuff is and/or will be standalone.

Sometimes the title comes first and the book comes next.

That's how "The Emperor Must Die" started for me.

[Arthmail]

I like themes of the titles to reflect themes of the book.

My first trilogy, which has yet to have an overarching title (ie: The Lord of the Rings, or Mazalan Book of the Fallen), follows a trend of sorts. I call it the Rophen Cycle for the moment, but i hate that and it will not stay.

1. In Scars (Completed, edited, waiting for my lazy ass to write a 1 page synopsis)

2. In Sorrows (Completed - first draft only)

3. In Embers Light (Not yet started)

-- All of these are set in a setting similiar to Venice during the height of its merchant empire, along with a great swath of magically twisted land called the Scar.

Stand alones are different

1. House of Water (Partially completed - 70k in words, having started in middle of january, end of january of this year)

-- I am having fun with this one. It is loosely based off of my first non-western culture. Very roughly tailored to East Indian culture, and by rough, i mean everyone is brown and not white. I didn't want to borrow too much, but this one started off as a project after a conversation i had with some Indian friends of mine.

The first trilogy i ever started, but have put to the side as the end sequence of all books taking place in a shared world, is called the Darker Wars. All of the books above are a prelude to the events in the Darker Wars sequence.

1. Sundered House (Completed - like 13 years ago. I did know how to write then, so i've put this one off. It needs to be returned to. Also, it's 425k. It is essentially a wreck.)

2. Kingdoms Burn

3.

4.

I have another series, set in a western style fantasy, that i have at least started on, but has sat on hold for other works in the previous sequence involving In Scars and In Sorrows. I managed to bang out 100k in 2 weeks, which is a record for me.

1. The Grey (100k - expecting to reach my standard 181k after revisions. Name is the most tentative title that i have, given that its a movie title as well, but one that i had been kicking around since conception. The title does have meaning within the world, but i might change it.

2. Firetide (Conceptualized only.)

3.

Overall, i intend to have the Rophen Cycle (gag), House of Water, another book that is only roughly concieved in my mind but which is a standalone, another standalone which has yet born no real commitment for fear of turning my eye to something new and pretty, preceed the Darker Wars Cycle. I could see 10 books all told set in the same world. Then no more. All are connected, and are actually connected with the western fantasy as well, but that one takes place in alternate dimension.

Not sure why i went on about all of this, just felt like sharing.

[Starkess]

Wow, yours are as bad as mine. My titles are [something I can't even remember], Emancipation, The Grey Horse, Miss Rodes, and now Journey of Pride. I think Emancipation is my ultimate favourite lol!

:cheers: Poorly titled novels FTW!

If i don't find a title, and proper pov names, the book does not get written.

Oh yeah, character names are a must for me. I won't move on until I've settled on a name for a character. My current one is (obviously) about someone named Anna. She has been Anna ever since I first had the idea for this two years ago. And then my damn brother went and had a baby and named her Anna! I haven't decided yet if I can bear to change my character's name, but I feel like it would be odd to publish (ha!) a novel starring my niece's name.

[Jaime's Wench]

:cheers: Poorly titled novels FTW!

Oh yeah, character names are a must for me. I won't move on until I've settled on a name for a character. My current one is (obviously) about someone named Anna. She has been Anna ever since I first had the idea for this two years ago. And then my damn brother went and had a baby and named her Anna! I haven't decided yet if I can bear to change my character's name, but I feel like it would be odd to publish (ha!) a novel starring my niece's name.

How selfish of your brother. I am glad I don't have any siblings to do such evil things to me. I would change my protagonist's name if I had to without too many qualms. In fact only yesterday I was considering changing a character's name so it had a Celtic rather than Latin origin.

[Hallyington]

Hello Jaime's Wench, I like how you adopt alot of things from Abercrombie books, It makes your novel very pleasant to read.

[Jaime's Wench]

Hello Jaime's Wench, I like how you adopt alot of things from Abercrombie books, It makes your novel very pleasant to read.

Thank you, Hallyington. Abercrombie has always been an inspiration of mine.

[Hallyington]

Thank you, Hallyington. Abercrombie has always been an inspiration of mine.

Aren't you writing a novel called "Journey Of Ride"?

[Jaime's Wench]

Pride, dear Hallyington, pride, and as I said earlier, I've never been good at titles.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Spent 5.5 hours editing in a Glasgow cafe (I should buy shares in this place) and finally finished editing chapters 38-40 (plus epilogue) which have been a major pain. Chapters 1-14 have had a lot more work, so I'm going back to 15 and will work my way to the end again. That should conclude the 2nd draft. And then it's back to the beginning for the third draft to tidy stuff up, change the gender of two characters, fix dialogue etc etc.

[Jaime's Wench]

Spent 5.5 hours editing in a Glasgow cafe (I should buy shares in this place) and finally finished editing chapters 38-40 (plus epilogue) which have been a major pain. Chapters 1-14 have had a lot more work, so I'm going back to 15 and will work my way to the end again. That should conclude the 2nd draft. And then it's back to the beginning for the third draft to tidy stuff up, change the gender of two characters, fix dialogue etc etc.

Lol! I have to say, I've changed names, physical features and even subtle character traits in third drafts before. But never an entire gender. My characters come to me intrinsically male or female. Good luck with it!

[Jerol]

I am getting close to the end of book 1. I have no title for it, or the series. I figure it will come to me in time. As far as names go, I'm flexible. I don't need a name for a character to start writing about them though I can usually make one up out of thin air pretty quick. I have to rename a race because the name for them doesn't quite work. Again, I don't sweat these. This is small stuff compared to getting my ass in the chair and writing, moving the plot along, making sure there are no loose ends. I've changed gender a couple times but yes, they usually come to me as either male or female. I have one race that has three genders though it's not important to the plot, just another characteristic to differentiate them from the rest.

[Starkess]

How selfish of your brother. I am glad I don't have any siblings to do such evil things to me. I would change my protagonist's name if I had to without too many qualms. In fact only yesterday I was considering changing a character's name so it had a Celtic rather than Latin origin.

I know, right?! I mean, in his defense, he has no idea, but still...

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

I've always had issues keeping a story going in my mind and on paper but I've finally developed and idea to combine stories without them clashing horribly and still have a very human message in it. I'd like to know some opinions on the idea. I've written only about 3K of it so far so probably no betas yet I want to at least give someone something decently sizable and edited so not to waste their times; but anywho the idea:

Joseph Clarke is an old man who is slowly fading away from Alzheimer's. With his wife deceased and his children spread out and not prone to visits his only companionship is another old man, an old woman and his caretaker in the nursing home. He leads a rather boring existance and is often confused about certain things. But during his dreams he has moments of clarity and control. For you see when he was a younger man Joseph wrote short stories for his son and daughter and as they got older the stories got more mature but soon his job as a Lawyer and than a DA and his children getting older made him abandon the stories and their ideas. Now in his dreams he is revisiting these worlds he created and all are under attack from something dark and evil. In his future scifi world a race of energy based lifeforms are killing the earths colonies and in Oorcinrath his fantasy world an army of death descends upon the living. He soon finds in both these worlds that he has god-like abilities and anything he wants to do will happen but even with these powers he finds he cannot turn back the tide of the darkness.

Benjamin Warren is an upcoming literary agent. His partner Henry and him have been trying to seal the deal with a new novelist they think will make the three of them millions but at the last minute the writer pulls out and signs another contract. Scrambling for anything Henry and Benjamin began to try and recruit writers but most will not be done until July leaving them months without anything new to put on the shelves. Benjamin finds a box of old paper in a box in his new houses basement and finds the stories Joseph Clarke used to tell his children. He finds himself reading them and unable to put them down. He then begins the task of tracking down both Benjamin Clarke and his children to try and finish the stories.

I hope this helps me focus my creative energies instead of getting bored easily or quickly with one as has often been the case. I don't know quite what to classify it as either considering both the modern scifi world and the high-fantasy world intertwined with reality. If you like the idea and want to check it out once I get a sizable portion written give me a PM and if anyone would like a read of something of theirs I am always looking for something to read especially if my review can help as the average joe.

Thanks!

[Jaime's Wench]

Hey Syv, great to see you on here and great to hear you've been developing your ideas more. You certainly have a very interesting premise here even if it is set in modern day -shudders at the thought of writing modern fiction-

So, here's my thoughts on your synopsis:

I've always had issues keeping a story going in my mind and on paper but I've finally developed and idea to combine stories without them clashing horribly and still have a very human message in it. I'd like to know some opinions on the idea. I've written only about 3K of it so far so probably no betas yet I want to at least give someone something decently sizable and edited so not to waste their times; but anywho the idea:

Joseph Clarke is an old man who is slowly fading away from Alzheimer's. With his wife deceased and his children spread out and not prone to visits his only companionship is another old man, an old woman and his caretaker in the nursing home. He leads a rather boring existance and is often confused about certain things. But during his dreams he has moments of clarity and control. For you see when he was a younger man Joseph wrote short stories for his son and daughter and as they got older the stories got more mature but soon his job as a Lawyer and than a DA and his children getting older made him abandon the stories and their ideas. Now in his dreams he is revisiting these worlds he created and all are under attack from something dark and evil. In his future scifi world a race of energy based lifeforms are killing the earths colonies and in Oorcinrath his fantasy world an army of death descends upon the living. He soon finds in both these worlds that he has god-like abilities and anything he wants to do will happen but even with these powers he finds he cannot turn back the tide of the darkness.

You've got a lot going on in just this first half. I like the premise of an old man going back and dreaming of the stories he wrote when he was younger, and finding he's able to live more in those worlds than he does in his own. It's realisitic. However, you've got three complicated things going on here. Firstly, you've got an old man with Alzheimers, who has a family and a community around him, and then you've got two seperate worlds to build. It might be easier on you if the old man doesn't have Alzheimers, so that you do not need to do the research into it and into modern day nursing facilities. My grandma has just moved into the severe stages of Alzheimers and by helping my family I am able to learn a lot about it for Lucius in my novel, but because Lucius is a medieval king rather than a modern-day old man, I won't need to look into the nitty-gritty of nursing care plans and routines and therapies... he's just going to be left to 'go mad'. So basically... you may be creating unnecessary work for yourself.

Second - do you need him to go into two worlds? Why not just one? I have a story, fully-fledged, world et al, that I've lived with since I was ten years old. I know I'll never write that down like I do my others - could your character have similar?

Benjamin Warren is an upcoming literary agent. His partner Henry and him have been trying to seal the deal with a new novelist they think will make the three of them millions but at the last minute the writer pulls out and signs another contract. Scrambling for anything Henry and Benjamin began to try and recruit writers but most will not be done until July leaving them months without anything new to put on the shelves. Benjamin finds a box of old paper in a box in his new houses basement and finds the stories Joseph Clarke used to tell his children. He finds himself reading them and unable to put them down. He then begins the task of tracking down both Benjamin Clarke and his children to try and finish the stories.

Again, the idea is a good one, but if you are going to create 'a story within a story' for the old man, are you making too much work for yourself by then having this as a secondary main plot? This is also very non-fantasy in theme, which would make pitching to an agent more difficult. Unfortunately when you write novels with an eye to publication (and if you're not then just ignore me!), you have to always think about what genre the novel is going to fit into, otherwise you're onto a loser from the start (and trust me - I made this mistake with my last novel, and it was quite heartbreaking to then have to leave it behind).

I hope this helps me focus my creative energies instead of getting bored easily or quickly with one as has often been the case. I don't know quite what to classify it as either considering both the modern scifi world and the high-fantasy world intertwined with reality. If you like the idea and want to check it out once I get a sizable portion written give me a PM and if anyone would like a read of something of theirs I am always looking for something to read especially if my review can help as the average joe.

Thanks!

I hope this helps. My overall advice is that you're trying to do too much. Often stories make themselves bigger as you go along, so starting small is necessary, otherwise you'll become overwhelmed very quickly. You've also got to consider word count - most agents/publishers will not consider a manuscript by a debut author that is over 100K. Your synopsis suggests a much longer project.

[Arthmail]

:cheers: Poorly titled novels FTW!

Oh yeah, character names are a must for me. I won't move on until I've settled on a name for a character. My current one is (obviously) about someone named Anna. She has been Anna ever since I first had the idea for this two years ago. And then my damn brother went and had a baby and named her Anna! I haven't decided yet if I can bear to change my character's name, but I feel like it would be odd to publish (ha!) a novel starring my niece's name.

I know. I've had the name Roland in my mind forever as a name for a character - that is until i became friends with a Roland and he ruined it for me.

[TheDanish]

I went with the "slight bastardization" approach: take real-world names and twist them. It helps that most are based on Chinese or Mongolian, so the chances of me meeting someone with a similar name is significantly lower.

As for titles, I too have been struggling. Arthmail's thematic method most closely mirrors mine; the problem is I haven't come up with much. I like Abercrombie's employment of quotes, so I've been scouring my copies of the Analects and the Zhuangzi and the Art of War... pretty much every Chinese philosophy text I own. So far I've got In the End a Sage, from Xunzi.

I hope this helps. My overall advice is that you're trying to do too much. Often stories make themselves bigger as you go along, so starting small is necessary, otherwise you'll become overwhelmed very quickly. You've also got to consider word count - most agents/publishers will not consider a manuscript by a debut author that is over 100K. Your synopsis suggests a much longer project.

I agree on the astounding ability of stories to grow on their own. Start with a seed and it can quickly become a tree. Mine started out as an idea in my head and has since sprung into a fantasy epic of four planned books, if I ever write them. For now I'm doing it for fun, and if I can edit it into something publishable... well, we'll see.

[Jaime's Wench]

I went with the "slight bastardization" approach: take real-world names and twist them. It helps that most are based on Chinese or Mongolian, so the chances of me meeting someone with a similar name is significantly lower.

As for titles, I too have been struggling. Arthmail's thematic method most closely mirrors mine; the problem is I haven't come up with much. I like Abercrombie's employment of quotes, so I've been scouring my copies of the Analects and the Zhuangzi and the Art of War... pretty much every Chinese philosophy text I own. So far I've got In the End a Sage, from Xunzi.

I agree on the astounding ability of stories to grow on their own. Start with a seed and it can quickly become a tree. Mine started out as an idea in my head and has since sprung into a fantasy epic of four planned books, if I ever write them. For now I'm doing it for fun, and if I can edit it into something publishable... well, we'll see.

I've used quotes for titles before. 'Be Not Proud' was my favourite (from the Donne sonnet) but that was for a fanfiction, so somewhat wasted lol! I started off slightly bastardising some names but not others with my novel, which means I have characters like Eawan and Alyce... but others like Lucian and Cleon, who are not bastardised. I probably should change Eawan's name to make it fit, but... I am fond of it now :-/ As for writing for fun... I need to remind myself when I get all this angst over publishing that I do actually enjoy writing most of the time.

[TheDanish]

I've used quotes for titles before. 'Be Not Proud' was my favourite (from the Donne sonnet) but that was for a fanfiction, so somewhat wasted lol! I started off slightly bastardising some names but not others with my novel, which means I have characters like Eawan and Alyce... but others like Lucian and Cleon, who are not bastardised. I probably should change Eawan's name to make it fit, but... I am fond of it now :-/ As for writing for fun... I need to remind myself when I get all this angst over publishing that I do actually enjoy writing most of the time.

I don't see anything wrong with mixing slightly bastardized names like Eawan with real names like Lucian. I mean, Martin does it all the time!

The possibility of publishing is part scary, part hopeful, part a distant dream. I've had non-fiction work "published" by my university but that's a different beast. I think for many people, one's best work comes out when we just try to relax and flow. The problem, of course, is that's easier said than done :P

[The Marquis de Leech]

Another agent rejection. Oh well, keep plugging away...

[TheDanish]

Another agent rejection. Oh well, keep plugging away...

Good luck, sir. I cannot say I have any experience with agents, but I hope persistence pays off, in the end.

In other news, I just wrote a 10,000 word chapter and am horrified at the idea of editing it.