Heresy 52

[Hrafntýr]

I always read that part about the NK giving his lady his seed as fairly literal, i.e. that they were having sexual relations, and that this was a process akin to Stannis and Mel's production of shadow babies. Of course, this leaves quite open the possibility that there were also sacrifices of human children, also parallel to Mel's sacrifice of "king's blood."

[EmmaoftheCanals]

Not to usurp the Mistress of Whisperers, but the Facebook recap is up.

[Tyryan Lannister]

Not to usurp the Mistress of Whisperers, but the Facebook recap is up.

Tywin: "This one was only the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die." That was stone cold. Made me wish you were my son.

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

[Tyryan Lannister]

And now for something completely different:

We all know our little joke that ASOIAF is actually an allegory for American Football? Well, apparently the NFL Network is trying to get George to come on one its shows to discuss the recent NFL Draft with respect to the Giants and Jets. :lmao:

[Profion]

The thing about the wall having to be build during one night and making an extreme long night remember a bit the construction of the Asgardian Wall by a Hrimthurs, who had 3 seasons to build the wall (and asked for the godess Freya as a payment) and he couldn´t be helped by any men, his only help was his steed, Svadilfari. But Svadilfari was so fast and strong that he could carry really heavy stones really quick, and Hrimthurs would be able to construct it, and the gods thought that was cheating and send Loki to do certain weird stuff with Svadilfari, resulting in Sleipnir, Odin´s horse.

I wonder if cheating to construct the Wall come from this tale...

[Stark@heart]

Don't forget Mole Town. I'd say it's been around almost as long as the Wall.

Imagine if it were used to create "prayers" for the Cold Gods.

[Black Crow]

The thing about the wall having to be build during one night and making an extreme long night remember a bit the construction of the Asgardian Wall by a Hrimthurs, who had 3 seasons to build the wall (and asked for the godess Freya as a payment) and he couldn´t be helped by any men, his only help was his steed, Svadilfari. But Svadilfari was so fast and strong that he could carry really heavy stones really quick, and Hrimthurs would be able to construct it, and the gods thought that was cheating and send Loki to do certain weird stuff with Svadilfari, resulting in Sleipnir, Odin´s horse.

I wonder if cheating to construct the Wall come from this tale...

Its also worth bearing in mind in this context that traditionally time moves differently in Faerie. Its the old story whereby someone spends a night in a Sidhe brugh and emerges blinking into the sinshine next morning to find a hundred years have passed - or in this case the 13 years which equate to a Westerosi generation.

[Black Crow]

I always read that part about the NK giving his lady his seed as fairly literal, i.e. that they were having sexual relations, and that this was a process akin to Stannis and Mel's production of shadow babies. Of course, this leaves quite open the possibility that there were also sacrifices of human children, also parallel to Mel's sacrifice of "king's blood."

So did I originally, but if he was doing a Craster and giving up his sons that would both explain the "sacrificing" and the ban on members of the watch taking wives or fathering children, and at the same time the business of being a man in the day and a king at night

[redriver]

The only real comparison in Celtic mythology I can think of is the Giant's Causeway,which in legend was thrown together very quickly,linking Scotland and Ireland so the Irish and the Scots giants could have a fight.

It depends which version of the legend you read who was involved.In one version it's Fionn Mac Cumhail and Mannanan Mac Lir.The latter was revered as a sea god who could summon mist to confound his enemies.

[Lord Martin Sheol]

Tywin: "This one was only the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others die." That was stone cold. Made me wish you were my son.

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

Brilliant indeed.

That analysis on time were realy enlightening. By the way, it's not necessary for the sun to stop in order to get a long night. On our planet we have long night by the poles (it's because of the angle in wich the sun 'strikes' the earth). I guess the same could be applied to ASoIaF, with even more reason since they have 'summer isles' by the south. A strange world that one :s

Even more hints on the WW's viral/parasite/negative "lifestyle" xD Since apparently they can't reproduce by themselves, raise human babies into them and breed with male humans (maybe they did so with the CotF, previous FM?). Seems they may not be a race itself but rather some sort of disease. Have you already discussed this? I guess that'd make more sense into the hypothesis of some fire priests being the counterpart of WW's. Neither of them are a race itself but a fire/ice infused being. Like in dungeons and dragons, an "added template".

P.S.: Can someone explain me how do they keep track on years/generations? what's their measure? the moon cycles?

[King Tyrion VIII]

No apology necessary, as you say it places the Wall very firmly into the Celtic mythologies we know are at the heart of much of what's going on up North and also explains why although we have long summers and long winters, the game changer which seems to have started it all off is known not as the Long Winter or the Longest Winter, but as the Long Night.

It also calls to mind, although they're not one and the same, Old Nan's story about the Night's King; so called because while he was but a man by day, at night he was king. It sounds rather like stories of mortals spending their days in our world but their nights in a Sidhe brugh, and that in turn comes back to an earlier thought that this business of him giving the white lady his seed doesn't necessarily mean they were having sexual relations, but that the price of his crossing into Faerie was to give up his sons. After his overthrow it was discovered, you'll recall, that he and his men had been "sacrificing" to the Others, the Sidhe, presumably just as Craster was doing.

So did Craster cross into Faerie or was he paying someone else's passage? Or maybe his curse was that he was paying the Night King's passage.

[King Tyrion VIII]

And now for something completely different:

We all know our little joke that ASOIAF is actually an allegory for American Football? Well, apparently the NFL Network is trying to get George to come on one its shows to discuss the recent NFL Draft with respect to the Giants and Jets. :lmao:

That would be cool. Except if you by Martin's blog neither team had a good draft this year.

[Black Crow]

P.S.: Can someone explain me how do they keep track on years/generations? what's their measure? the moon cycles?

Ah, we worked this one out a long time ago and rationalise it by the concept of "great" seasons, that is: years and seasons run normally, with spring, summer, autumn and winter; reaping and sowing and all that jazz. The great seasons, or more accurately the long summers and long winters affect the regular seasons, thus a long winter such as we seem to be entering is characterised by a long cold winter season, a late, cold spring, short wet summer, and early autumn and poor harvest. A long summer on the other hand will be characterised by a bright spring, a hot dry summer, golden autumn and a short relatively mild winter.

[Lord Martin Sheol]

I know squad about american football :s (I'm argentinian) so I don't get a thing of that joke :dunno:

Oh, er..., random thought: remember BR refers to Bran as the Wolf that Flies? wouldn't that be an statment against him being the 3EC? Maybe that's just refering to him as a Stark that flies, since he's a crow, also...

[Black Crow]

So did Craster cross into Faerie or was he paying someone else's passage? Or maybe his curse was that he was paying the Night King's passage.

Living north of the Wall, Craster is outwith the realms of men which is why he lays such store in being a godly man and doing right by his gods - because he's on their turf and has nothing to fear so long as he honours them properly.

[redriver]

We call the realm of faerie "Faerie",but in a lot of the legends this was literally described as Otherland.

[Black Crow]

Oh, er..., random thought: remember BR refers to Bran as the Wolf that Flies? wouldn't that be an statment against him being the 3EC? Maybe that's just refering to him as a Stark that flies, since he's a crow, also...

Mmmm, yes, the winged wolf isn't the same thing as a crow, or even a raven for that matter.

[Black Crow]

We call the realm of faerie "Faerie",but in a lot of the legends this was literally described as Otherland.

Indeed it was - you mean of course where the Others come from...

[redriver]

Indeed it was - you mean of course where the Others come from...

Yes.Or perhaps where certain players in the early game were sent to...as part of a Pact?The sacrifices that the old gods didn't want maybe?

[Black Crow]

Nah, I'm mindful of GRRM's statement on this one: 'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.'

Looking upon the Others as just that, the Faerie people of the Otherlands just feels so right.