Eddard Stark represents the sheeple?

[Manderlay]

Post Deleted

[yolkboy]

Yes I am trying to troll all the people who idolize Eddard Stark, into enlightenment, because he isn't the greatest example of justice. He represents the sheeple.

Well you're not very enlightening.

Enjoy your trolling.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Yes I am trying to troll all the people who idolize Eddard Stark, into enlightenment, because he isn't the greatest example of justice. He represents the sheeple.

OK, I'm attempting to understand your point. Ned has ideals, honor, and principles that he follows. This makes him a sheeple? So, someone like Ghandi is a sheeple? I agree that Ned was naive, in that he thought other people would do the right thing, just like he does, and his father, Jon Arryn, others that were an influence to him. He seems to have a blind spot where Bobby B's drinking and whoring is concerned, however.

[The guy from the Vale]

Ned's also an example of honour. He's arguably one the most honourable men in ASOIAF.

Not just that, but Ned knows that honor has to serve a purpose. He's nt about honor in and of itself, in which case it would become an empty shell, but about honor to protect the innocent. But yes, honor and mercy are the important themes in Ned's arc, not justice.

[AchillesReborn]

Well you're not very enlightening.

Enjoy your trolling.

Any thread with a alluring title could be considered a troll, I don't understand all the negative connotation and hate. Like I said people care too much about fictional characters so they idolize them to a point, where they don't see clearly. This thread is simply a debate about weather or not Ned represents the sheeple, I think the answer is quit clear.

[Manderlay]

snip

You tell me the intelligence in not seising the kids as Renly asked? Ned's reason was that he did not want to disturb them on that night, but he was soon going to declare the bastards and probably have them exiled

He did intend to take the kids in custody, but by doing it the right way, whats wrong with taking the kids later into custody, he is not a lannister and does not think like Renly does, that is a dishonorable way, he wanted to do it lawfully and place Stannis on the IT, his actions would have raised questions to his motivations.

You tell me the intelligence in not telling Robert the truth? It was merciful, but not honourable and not intelligent.

Robert was dying anyway, what purpose would it have served, as we found out later the kings wishes in his letter was just a piece of paper for cersei. If Robert hadnt gone hunting and get killed, it would have cersei who lost.

You tell me the intelligence in openly following the trail, which appears to have got Jon Arryn killed?

As I said before Ned wasn't a man who was suited for this sort of thing, he did the best he could according to his capabilities.

Eddard did not adapt to the situation, underestimated his opponents and made mistake after mistake.

He did try to adapt, but was betrayed on every turn, Roberts hunting accident and his death allowed cersei to win and have things in her favour. Ned was an honorable man and he did things accordingly, that doesnt mean he made mistakes, things just didnt go in his favour, they went in the favour of lannisters.

[AchillesReborn]

OK, I'm attempting to understand your point. Ned has ideals, honor, and principles that he follows. This makes him a sheeple? So, someone like Ghandi is a sheeple? I agree that Ned was naive, in that he thought other people would do the right thing, just like he does, and his father, Jon Arryn, others that were an influence to him. He seems to have a blind spot where Bobby B's drinking and whoring is concerned, however.

All idols become sheeple, they don't evolve or change, they are idolized by the audience. Therefor they blindly follow a set of ideals, that are only useful in certain context.

I just don't like the idea that Eddard is considered so benevolent, while the true hero in my opinion is Jamie.

[mcb]

Exactly he represents the sheeple, not that he necessarily is one himself. But people blindly follow him because he is so honest. Except for the moments right before he died of course.

Although I think he blindly follows his ideals without questioning if he is right.

It all honestly just sounds as if you had recently learned a new buzzword and tried to use it in a sentence.

[gougef]

It all honestly just sounds as if you had recently learned a new buzzword and tried to use it in a sentence.

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[mrunderhill]

@mrunderhill

You tell me the intelligence in not seising the kids as Renly asked? Ned's reason was that he did not want to disturb them on that night, but he was soon going to declare the bastards and probably have them exiled

He did intend to take the kids in custody, but by doing it the right way, whats wrong with taking the kids later into custody, he is not a lannister and does not think like Renly does, that is a dishonorable way, he wanted to do it lawfully and place Stannis on the IT, his actions would have raised questions to his motivations.

No it was the right way, legal and would have caused the least bloodshed. Ned was being foolish. Again it was due to underestimating Cersei. Really what is a night's sleep when you are going to be arrested in the morning?

You tell me the intelligence in not telling Robert the truth? It was merciful, but not honourable and not intelligent.

Robert was dying anyway, what purpose would it have served, as we found out later the kings wishes in his letter was just a piece of paper for cersei. If Robert hadnt gone hunting and get killed, it would have cersei who lost.

Except Robert did not just have a hunting accident did he? It was set up for him to die. Telling Robert the truth would have allowed for him to confirm in front of many honest and powerful men that either Edric or Stannis was his heir. The piece of paper meant nothing, but holding the rightful king meant everything. Renly tells him as much.

"Strike! Now, while the castle sleeps." Renly looked back at Ser Boros again and dropped his voice to an urgent whisper. "We must get Joffrey away from his mother and take him in hand. Protector or no, the man who holds the king holds the kingdom. We should seize Myrcella and Tommen as well. Once we have her children, Cersei will not dare oppose us. The council will confirm you as Lord Protector and make Joffrey your ward."

Ned regarded him coldly. "Robert is not dead yet. The gods may spare him. If not, I shall convene the council to hear his final words and consider the matter of the succession, but I will not dishonor his last hours on earth by shedding blood in his halls and dragging frightened children from their beds."

You tell me the intelligence in openly following the trail, which appears to have got Jon Arryn killed?

As I said before Ned wasn't a man who was suited for this sort of thing, he did the best he could according to his capabilities.

You don't have to be suited to this kind of thing to act intelligently. An almost equally powerful man as Ned was killed for doing something and Ned plans to do the exact samething?

Eddard did not adapt to the situation, underestimated his opponents and made mistake after mistake.

He did try to adapt, but was betrayed on every turn, Roberts hunting accident and his death allowed cersei to win and have things in her favour. Ned was an honorable man and he did things accordingly, that doesnt mean he made mistakes, things just didnt go in his favour, they went in the favour of lannisters.

Things did not go in his favour, because he made mistakes. He was not unlucky, he made poor choices. He was not betrayed at every turn. He was only really betrayed by Littlefinger at the end and by Sansa. Renly did not betray him. Renly left when he realised Ned was being stupid. I like Ned, he is my favourite character, but he doomed himself with many poor decisions.

[AchillesReborn]

I have been using the term sheeple for years now. I just wanted to see if I could get Eddard Stark fan-boys to admit that he might not be as smart, or honorable as they beleive him to be.

[King of Winters]

I have been using the term sheeple for years now. I just wanted to see if I could get a Eddard Stark fan-boys to admit that he might not be as smart, or honorable as they beleive him to be.

Ummm, no.

[Jasta11]

Ned made several poor decisions, but no really more or less than many other characters in the series to be honest. He got killed because 1) Cercei's stupid plan ended up working 2) LF betrayed him and 3) Joffrey was bonkers.

As far as he being a ''sheeple'', that's a pretty damn ridculous way to look at things. The man rebelled against a King and pratically said ''fuck you'' to another because he wanted to kill children. He's no stupid yes-man.

[mcb]

I have been using the term sheeple for years now. I just wanted to see if I could get Eddard Stark fan-boys to admit that he might not be as smart, or honorable as they beleive him to be.

Then consider less ambiguous wording. It's as if you started a thread titled "Euron Greyjoy is Web 3.0", when what you truly meant is "WTF is the deal with Euron?". In your head it might sound the same, but for some of us it's just mighty confusing.

[AchillesReborn]

Post Deleted

[mrunderhill]

Ned made several poor decisions, but no really more or less than many other characters in the series to be honest. He got killed because 1) Cercei's stupid plan ended up working 2) LF betrayed him and 3) Joffrey was bonkers.

As far as he being a ''sheeple'', that's a pretty damn ridculous way to look at things. The man rebelled against a King and pratically said ''fuck you'' to another because he wanted to kill children. He's no stupid yes-man.

I agree with the last part. Ned was a strong man, who would stand up against anything he considered as wrong. He was a highly moral man, but too overconfident in his abilities.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

I have been using the term sheeple for years now. I just wanted to see if I could get Eddard Stark fan-boys to admit that he might not be as smart, or honorable as they beleive him to be.

You're not using the word correctly.

[Manderlay]

snip

Yes but this is Ned we are talking about, he would have considered some of things you said dishonorable, perhaps that didn't make him smart and he made some bad choices, but he made the choices that in his view were honorable, "the man who holds the king holds the kingdom" that would have been dishonorable for Ned, and it wouldn't be exactly without bloodshed so he was right no to do it, would he want his children treated that way, hearing to the sounds of men dying and frightened seeing the dead, stuff like that. His investigations in Jon Arryn's death, he did the best, he tried to do it discreetly, but didn't have spies like the rest and there are various forms of intelligence, this kind of stuff wasn't Ned's cup of tea, I don't think Ned was stupid but neither was he so smart as to play the game of thrones. Ned was always at a disadvantage there. He didn't like the complexity of it as he once himself thinks that.

And I do think that Robert dying was in Cersei's favour, because Ned was going to act, the timing just wasnt right.

[Ydiot]

I have been using the term sheeple for years now. I just wanted to see if I could get Eddard Stark fan-boys to admit that he might not be as smart, or honorable as they beleive him to be.

Pretty sure you said in an earlier lost hr was blinded by his honour. Seems like you have a problem with fans of every character judging by the threads you have started.

[AchillesReborn]

You're not using the word correctly.

The Eddard Stark fan-boys are the sheeple.

Pretty sure you said in an earlier lost hr was blinded by his honour. Seems like you have a problem with fans of every character judging by the threads you have started.

Well fan comes from the word fanatic. These fans were insulting me because of my opinions on fictional characters, I'm just questioning their morality.