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Dove

[BOOK SPOILERS] “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

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For the people thinking the torture is gratuitous, I think that soon they will start showing more psychological torture. They've established that the guy is a weirdo that likes hunting people. They've established that he takes fingers. All they need to do is show him beginning to turn Theon into reek.

Personally I think it'd be best to use some sort of water torture, just because of the irony of the whole ironborn drowned men thing. Maybe they could show him calling Ramsay the bastard of Bolton and then Ramsay gets word that he's been legitimized and so he starts messing with Theon's identity as payback. Water torture with him constantly asking Theon what his name is. Maybe even throw in a line about how he has to remember his name? I don't know.

That way they can forget about him for about half of season 4 or more, if they choose. When we return to him, we find each aspect of the torture was taken up to 11. And there you go, no torture porn but Theon is broken and we understand how he got there.

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I think there is a good deal more torture on the way with some Ramsay backstory included - but I do think at some point... there will be a 'final' act of violence that seems really repulsive... then we won't hear about Theon for a while -- only to have him re-emerge as Reek... and we find things actually got a LOT worse.

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So we have Osha and Meera arguing over who can best skin a rabbit... But boy rulz!

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I think there is a good deal more torture on the way with some Ramsay backstory included - but I do think at some point... there will be a 'final' act of violence that seems really repulsive... then we won't hear about Theon for a while -- only to have him re-emerge as Reek... and we find things actually got a LOT worse.

Yeah I agree with this...That seems like the most sensible and efficient way of handling it.

I don't really get why book readers are complaining about the Theon/Boy scenes so far being torture porn...They are. And that's the point. They can't just eliminate Theon for 2 seasons and just expect us to feel sorry for him suddenly, simply because he gets tortured. Without his inner monologue, it's impossible to make that transition on TV without seeing it. Any dialogue he would have with FArya or whoever wouldn't have the impact if he simply talked about the torture. And if they did it like in the books, with flashbacks, what would those flashbacks show other than torture? The torture happened; it's macabre, over the top, and part of the equation. Not to mention that without these scenes, we'd have no exploration into Ramsay or the general treachery of the Boltons at all.

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The thing is if they reveal who ramsay is ,people will know roose has betrayed Robb for sure, so they have to keep the suspense untill the red wedding

No.

Book 2 - Ramsay is revealed to be a sick bastard about halfway through the story, Roose acknowledges as much in front of Robb and co. Ramsay also sacks Winterfell at the end of this book while Roose is still believed to be a Stark loyalist. No biggie.

Book 3 - Roose betrays Robb towards the end, well after the established reveal of Ramsay and it's still a pretty big shocker for most readers.

The thing is we don't have the whole Duskendale issue to put Roose into perspective but that works for the viewers not knowing Roose's endgame.

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I REALLY hope they include Reek at some point though. Theon's transformation won't be the same without his new name.

Ramsay having some evil prick minion hanging around him (whom Theon would kill in another desperate escape attempt) might work.

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No.

Book 2 - Ramsay is revealed to be a sick bastard about halfway through the story, Roose acknowledges as much in front of Robb and co. Ramsay also sacks Winterfell at the end of this book while Roose is still believed to be a Stark loyalist. No biggie.

Book 3 - Roose betrays Robb towards the end, well after the established reveal of Ramsay and it's still a pretty big shocker for most readers.

The thing is we don't have the whole Duskendale issue to put Roose into perspective but that works for the viewers not knowing Roose's endgame.

Well Ramsay wasn't in season two at all, and Roose hasn't said anything negative about his bastard at all. He's only talked about him once or twice in passing when discussing winterfell. So if they reveal him too early then it will be a huge red flag.

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Or Reek can simply be a name that Ramsay gives Theon to further demean him. There doesn't have to have been a Reek Mk.1 to inspire him.

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I like how you can see some similarities in terms of personality between Roose and Ramsey, For example, when Roose tells Jaime about the siege of Kings Landing he seems to enjoy the expression of despair on Jaime when he thinks Cersei is dead, and well also for all that is coming next. Ramsey is more sadistic I think and seems less interested in the outcome of the war or at least enjoys more his reek and his hunts. Non book viewers may be seeing some similarity between those two.

I loved how Ramsey confuses the audience and Theon equally, and yes, one thing Asoiaf doesnt have is happy endings, not even for the bad guys ....

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So we have Osha and Meera arguing over who can best skin a rabbit... But boy rulz!

Well, the boys were busy doing the important things like having world saving visions.

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Well, the boys were busy doing the important things like having world saving visions.

I think it's pretty clear that Meera is the more robust of the two, and if not for her Jojen will likely be dead by now, which is exactly how it works in the books. In fact it's more of a trope to have a weak woman with some weird talent that has a strong male guardian protecting her.

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I think the RW will correspond with revealing Ramsay's identity. It'd be a good way to build the audience's horror as the true nature of the Boltons are revealed in the one episode. It'd also be a great way to wrap up the Theon/Ramsay arc for the season.

Dunno why everyone's complaining about torture porn. It hasn't even been that bad. Anyway I think showing the torture, and showing how long it goes on, is really important in order to make Theon's situation feel real later on.

As far as the progression of the arc in season 4, I like the idea that it might become less frequent after Theon "learns" his name, and then he pops up in S5 and just looks and acts a total mess.

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Even though Iwan is acing the creepy sadist, I just don't see him as Ramsay. It's partially his appearance. He doesn't fit Ramsay's description. But it's also his dialogue (not the actor's fault). From what I know of Ramsay's dialogue in the books, he feels out of character. But this Ramsay's introduction is completely different so I don't know. It's just not sitting right.

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The actor portraying Ramsey does a good job at being creepy, but he looks and sounds very different from the Ramsey I imagined while reading the books. I would like if they would give him some backstory in future. They should not drag out the reveal for much longer.

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I'm not against scenes of torture that serve a purpose, now I wonder how much more we really need to see of this. If Theon's story is just going to be "Body part removal of the week" then it will be pretty weak. I think we get it by now: Ramsey is a monster, Theon is going to suffer. A few key scenes are all that's left of this arc, namely, Ramsey giving Theon his new name and perhaps his castration. I think then we'll see the last of Theon until late in season four - bearing in mind that the books and seasons of the show no longer align and I expect Feast/Dance storylines to emerge in the final few episodes of next season.

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Yeah, at this point I'm a bit afraid that it will turn into a "torture of the week" storyline, I think that Theon should have one or maybe two more significant scenes and it is time to let this part of the story rest for a while. Next time we meet Theon he should be fully transformed into Reek.

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I think in the next episode Theon will say something like "you are the Bastard of Dreadfort" or "Bolton's bastard" and an angered Ramsay will reply "i'm not a bastard" and will castrate Theon, whilist not revealing his identity.

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If they do castrate Theon next episode, for the sake of my sanity, I'm hoping he doesn't have it flayed first. I think they're rushing his torture a little bit too fast. We just got flaying this week. It's best to take things slowly. After all, Theon isn't going anywhere.

If he does get castrated, hopefully it's the last we see of Theon's on-screen torture.

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Yeah, at this point I'm a bit afraid that it will turn into a "torture of the week" storyline, I think that Theon should have one or maybe two more significant scenes and it is time to let this part of the story rest for a while. Next time we meet Theon he should be fully transformed into Reek.

I agree, hopefully all their is left is the scene next week, then a scene in ep10 revealing Ramsay and Theon learning his new name with the implication that the torture is only beginning.

Then no Theon until ep9 or 10 of Season 4, Maybe Ramsay arriving at Moat Cailin on horseback and asking for his Reek. Then the camera shows a limping grey haired man looking down making his way to Ramsay's side and getting on all fours to act as a step for Ramsay dismounting. Then when he stands up reveal that it's poor old Theon looking a little worse for wear.

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