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Jon's Queen Consort

Jon Snow the 3headed dragon and mythology.

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I was reading a post from Apple Martini (Jon Snow at the Crossroads of Resurrection Mythology) and then I had an idea. In many mythologies around the world one deity has 3 separate *faces*. One deity can be three other deities at the same time. So I had the idea: How about Jon being the three headed dragon with different hypostasis?

Like:

Jon Targaryen, Jon Stark, Jon Snow

Jon the wolf, Jon the Dragon, Jon the crow

Jon the King in the North, Jon the Targ king, Jon LC of NW

Jon the Song of Ice and Fire, Jon the Prince that was Promised, Jon the Azor Ahai Reborn

What do you think?

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Jon of Winterfell, Jon of the Wall, Jon of the Wildlings?

That is interesting but I think that it is more like

Jon of Dragonstone (as heir) Jon of Winterfell (as king) Jon of the Wall (as LC)

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Whether or not it actually ends up being Jon, that's actually pretty much how I interpret the "three heads" thing. I think it's one person with three heads, not three different people. I think there's too much connection drawn between the prophecy and the Targaryen sigil and the Conquest, when, from what I can tell, the only commonality there is what people conclude for themselves and not necessarily anything confirmed in the text. This is very possibly a prophecy that long predates the Targaryen conquest and the three-headed dragon sigil — drawing conclusions about what the prophecy means by using a historical event that postdates it strikes me as putting the cart before the horse.

And as usual, I can't help but wonder if GRRM is leaving the separate hanging bits of the three-headed dragon prophecy and the Targaryen sigil, intending people to see a connection that might in actuality not even be there.

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That is interesting but I think that it is more like

Jon of Dragonstone (as heir) Jon of Winterfell (as king) Jon of the Wall (as LC)

I wouldn't dispute that those three are important; I do think that Jon's connection to the Wildlings is an equally important piece of his identity.

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Whether or not it actually ends up being Jon, that's actually pretty much how I interpret the "three heads" thing. I think it's one person with three heads, not three different people. I think there's too much connection drawn between the prophecy and the Targaryen sigil and the Conquest, when, from what I can tell, the only commonality there is what people conclude for themselves and not necessarily anything confirmed in the text. This is very possibly a prophecy that long predates the Targaryen conquest and the three-headed dragon sigil — drawing conclusions about what the prophecy means by using a historical event that postdates it strikes me as putting the cart before the horse.

And as usual, I can't help but wonder if GRRM is leaving the separate hanging bits of the three-headed dragon prophecy and the Targaryen sigil, intending people to see a connection that might in actuality not even be there.

The only reason I think that is Jon is because that it was said that tPtWP and AAR is the same person and I believe that all the messiah figures (AAR, TPTWP, 3HD, LH) are the same person from different scopes. For me too it was the Targaryens’ sigil that made me thinking of the same person different *faces* one dragon three heads I don’t think that it could be more clear than that. I like the idea of a prophecy that predates the Targaryen conquest could you explain more about it?

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hmm this is VERY interesting, I like it, even if the result is that the story becomes very Jon-centric, and the idea I've always had about the books is that there is no single protagonist :dunno:

I like the idea of a prophecy that predates the Targaryen conquest could you explain more about it?

actually, I think this would be a good thing to discuss... How does the prophecy predate the Targ conquest, but know that PtwP will be of Aerys' and Rhaella's line? Is that a misinterpretation of the text? Did they only know that the PTP will be Targ?

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actually, I think this would be a good thing to discuss... How does the prophecy predate the Targ conquest, but know that PtwP will be of Aerys' and Rhaella's line? Is that a misinterpretation of the text? Did they only know that the PTP will be Targ?

The woods witch made the A/R line prophesy, it had no connection to the dragon has three heads prophesy.

The dragon has 3 heads prophesy, presumably what Rhaegar was thinking about when he tried to 'recreate' Aegon the conqueror and his sisters, might have been read in books and therefore be ancient.

I dunno if i answered your question :dunno:

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The woods witch made the A/R line prophesy, it had no connection to the dragon has three heads prophesy.

The dragon has 3 heads prophesy, presumably what Rhaegar was thinking about when he tried to 'recreate' Aegon and his sisters, might have been read in books and therefore be ancient.

ok, you're right, I got my prophecies mixed up :D

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This is a very interesting concept. While it fits well with Jon, it could be any number of characters. I myself entertained such an idea, but I never thought about specific characters or titles. The way you present it is very well thought and a true possibility :)

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actually, I think this would be a good thing to discuss... How does the prophecy predate the Targ conquest, but know that PtwP will be of Aerys' and Rhaella's line? Is that a misinterpretation of the text? Did they only know that the PTP will be Targ?

I sort of see these as two separate things. The original prophecy, I believe, would have come before Aegon's Landing, maybe even long before. But the wood witch didn't chime in until much, much later and would have the benefit of more time passing. I don't think it's a case where, hundreds or thousands of years ago, the original seer who wrote the prophecy would have been able to pinpoint it to Aerys and Rhaella, if that makes sense.

It's also hard to keep track of which features are found in the PtwP prophecy and which ones are Azor Ahai. Even if they are the same person, it helps to keep the various "markers" separate, because each might mean something different depending on the culture, language, whatever.

I think it's incredibly important to remember too that we haven't seen any of these prophecies in their full form. We have a vague idea of what Rhaegar might have read, but we don't know for sure. We have Melisandre's interpretation, told through her words and her followers', and we have the Essosi red priests and their interpretation. Who's right? Is it a mix-up? Do these pieces contradict or do different people have different parts of it? How was the original prophecy "seen"? Was it visually expressed, all written, what language, etc.? Because if the entire thing is based on a vision someone saw, that brings up possible implications for misinterpretation, incorrect words, etc. (think of Melisandre thinking Alys was Arya or Pyke/Harlaw was Eastwatch). I'm also curious about etymology: Does Azor Ahai as a phrase actually mean something, or is it gibberish? Is it possible that if we were to learn its etymological root, it would "solve" it? Is that why we only have bits and pieces of these prophecies and never a complete picture, because a complete picture would make the solution clear?

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I'm also curious about etymology: Does Azor Ahai as a phrase actually mean something, or is it gibberish? Is it possible that if we were to learn its etymological root, it would "solve" it?

I've thought about this so so so much. I thought i was weird for doing so!

I've looked for clues in all the valyrian words we know of.

I think AA is a title not a name.

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I've thought about this so so so much. I thought i was weird for doing so!

I've looked for clues in all the valyrian words we know of.

I think AA is a title not a name.

Yeah, I don't think it's an actual name, probably more of a title like you said or an epithet.

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Yeah, I don't think it's an actual name, probably more of a title like you said or an epithet.

It might be nothing connected to ASOIAF, but in real life Azor Ahai means "A helper" (Azor) "Favoured by God" (Ahai).

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Yeah, I don't think it's an actual name, probably more of a title like you said or an epithet.

Do you have any guesses or hunches?

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It be nothing connected to ASOIAF, but in real life Azor Ahai means "A helper" (Azor) "Favoured by God" (Ahai).

That is interesting, and both make perfect sense in the event that GRRM just carried the real-world etymology over. Nonetheless I'd like to ask him about it ... ;)

Do you have any guesses or hunches?

Not really, no. But at the same time I feel like it has to be mean something.

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Yep. It's how I see it. Jon is the dragon with 3 identities.

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I think it is akin to Varamyr Sixskins. He has six skins, the skins of his five animals and his own. Jon having three heads could be the heads of Ghost and Drogon along with his own.

Three-headed Trios has the tower with the three turrets. The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do.

The first head could be Drogon, who roasts a dying Barsena and devours her along with the boar. The third head could be Ghost since after spending some time in Ghost, Jon will be reborn. The middle head is Jon's own head, the head between the direwolf (representative of House Stark) and the dragon (representative of House Targaryen), the balance between ice and fire.

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