why the confusion over Dragonsteel?

[mindchap]

Which would, by the way, make sense if Dawn was actually an Other's sword all along. Their own weapons could kill them.

But don't their own weapons freeze anything they touch? Wouldn't that make Dawn extremely dangerous to everyone else as well? Even the Daynes?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

But don't their own weapons freeze anything they touch? Wouldn't that make Dawn extremely dangerous to everyone else as well? Even the Daynes?

It might be a climate issue, i.e. because Dorne is so much warmer than the far north its damage is mitigated. Or without an Other wielding it, it loses some of that power.

[Free Northman]

My theory is that Dawn came from the same planetoid/asteroid/moon that broke up in the atmosphere and brought Dragons (and perhaps the Others) to the world.

House Dayne is 10,000 years old, and Dragons arrived sometime during early human history, which would make 10,000 years ago fit nicely.

It is worth noting that the only celestial impact events we know of are the Dragons' moon that burned up in the atmosphere as per the Qartheen origin tale, and the meteorite that Dawn was made from.

Oh yes, and the Red Comet, which might well be connected to those two events (perhaps a companion body whose orbit finally brought it back to earth's proximity after 10k years, thus awakening the magic in creatures that share it's origin, like Dragons and Others?

I think Dawn, Dragonsteel, Dragons and the Others are all linked to these heavenly happenings.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I think everyone should stop stating that the truth behind "dragonsteel" is obvious...since this thread and multiple others prove that it isn't obvious. Just saying...

[Leif]

My theory is that Dawn came from the same planetoid/asteroid/moon that broke up in the atmosphere and brought Dragons (and perhaps the Others) to the world.

House Dayne is 10,000 years old, and Dragons arrived sometime during early human history, which would make 10,000 years ago fit nicely.

It is worth noting that the only celestial impact events we know of are the Dragons' moon that burned up in the atmosphere as per the Qartheen origin tale, and the meteorite that Dawn was made from.

Oh yes, and the Red Comet, which might well be connected to those two events (perhaps a companion body whose orbit finally brought it back to earth's proximity after 10k years, thus awakening the magic in creatures that share it's origin, like Dragons and Others?

I think Dawn, Dragonsteel, Dragons and the Others are all linked to these heavenly happenings.

One of the more interesting theories I've heard. I like it.

[Free Northman]

"That was my first thought as well," is as clear as you can get that the first thought will in fact replaced by a second, more accurate idea.

The use of that phrase by Sam pretty much guarantees that the real answer is not Valyrian steel.

[Lykos]

My first thought was, that dragonsteel was steel a dragon was slayn with. Now however I prefer the idea that it is indeed dawn, but only when it is imbued with dragonfire probably from dragon´s blood.

• Dawn is the only steel sword we know that is old enough to fit.
  
• As butterbumps! noticed the Whitewalker that encountered Waymar Royce took a good look at his sword as if to determin wether it was the right one.
  
• There is no need for more than one sword if it makes the Others magically disappear. We also don´t know if there are more than six WW´s we only know about armies of Wights.
  
• Since dragons are the ultimate weapons, a proof that there is someone who can controll them or is willing to give up this power might cause the Others to retreat. Think of Ser Galadon of Morne and the Just Maid.
  

Here is the first time dragonsteel is mentioned in Dance.

I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it.”

“Dragonsteel?” The term was new to Jon. “Valyrian steel?”

“That was my first thought as well.”

Ah, I remember writing a (probably crackpot) theory once about House Dayne's possible role in the Battle for the Dawn and how perhaps their original sigil/symbol was a normal star, a member of the house fought in the Battle for the Dawn, succeeded in getting a weapon off of an Other, but died, leading to:

1. The original "bleeding star" and why there's a bleeding star in the prophecy

2. "Falling star" = dying "star" and this is where the current sigil originates

3. Dawn is an Other's sword and "forged from a fallen star" is the warped way the story has passed

I like this, but it would make the meteoric steel -second moon connection obsolete. Also would the magical ice blade not melt? And I think Ice was named after the Other´s swords.

Here is what Will witnesses in Game

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Ser Waymar met him bravely. "Dance with me then." He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. Yet in that moment, Will thought, he was a boy no longer, but a man of the Night's Watch.

The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal.

For a heartbeat he dared to hope.

They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them . . . four . . . five . . . Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them. ...

The pale sword came shivering through the air. Ser Waymar met it with steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain. Royce checked a second blow, and a third, then fell back a step. Another flurry of blows, and he fell back again. Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere. ...

Then Royce's parry came a beat too late. The pale sword bit through the ringmail beneath his arm. The young lord cried out in pain. Blood welled between the rings. It steamed in the cold, and the droplets seemed red as fire where they touched the snow. Ser Waymar's fingers brushed his side. His moleskin glove came away soaked with red. The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking.

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. "For Robert!" he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other's parry was almost lazy.

When the blades touched, the steel shattered.

A scream echoed through the forest night, and the longsword shivered into a hundred brittle pieces, the shards scattering like a rain of needles. Royce went to his knees, shrieking, and covered his eyes. Blood welled between his fingers.

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given. Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk.

Were the Others demonstrating on Waymar what to do with a dragon? But there were no dragons at that point, did they knew the dragons would return?

[mindchap]

My theory is that Dawn came from the same planetoid/asteroid/moon that broke up in the atmosphere and brought Dragons (and perhaps the Others) to the world.

House Dayne is 10,000 years old, and Dragons arrived sometime during early human history, which would make 10,000 years ago fit nicely.

It is worth noting that the only celestial impact events we know of are the Dragons' moon that burned up in the atmosphere as per the Qartheen origin tale, and the meteorite that Dawn was made from.

Oh yes, and the Red Comet, which might well be connected to those two events (perhaps a companion body whose orbit finally brought it back to earth's proximity after 10k years, thus awakening the magic in creatures that share it's origin, like Dragons and Others?

I think Dawn, Dragonsteel, Dragons and the Others are all linked to these heavenly happenings.

Most meteorites are made primarily of one of two things, iridium or iron. If Starfall is an actual meteorite site then steel could have been forged there before anywhere else. I just wonder if we will actually find out. Surely GRRM can't possibly address all the things that are brought up on here so this could end up being one of those things like who is Tom Bombadil, or what happened to the Entwives.

[Manderlay]

What about Dragonsteel being forged in the fires of the earth? since the Maesters say Dragonglass is basically volcanic glass or frozen fire which comes from the fires of the earth.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Dragonsteel is referenced as existing in a time several thousands of years before the Valyrian Freehold came into power, hence people can easily suggest with textual evidence that dragonsteel predates Valyrian steel and is potentially something else entirely. I also do not think Dawn is similar to the Others weapons; why would a sword of ice be referred to as dragonsteel, and why would a sword of ice be effective against beings that apparently are the embodiment of cold and winter? Could Dawn be something more than it is in regards to the Others? Yep. But one of their own weapons? Nah, doubt it greatly.

[Yukle]

I though dragonsteel was obsidian. There may be other ways of shaping it. "Steel" implies that it's made of metal, but then again obsidian is also called "dragonglass" when it'd look nothing like glass, just shiny rocks.

Apparently Dragonstone is overflowing with obsidian, so just make some arrowheads and sit patiently on the Wall, firing from afar. Use normal fire arrows for the Wights and obsidian for the Others.

People of Westeros, you're welcome for my excellent military strategies. :P

[Ser Leftwich]

Just a thought. There might be a connection between the original Hardhome disaster and the Dragonsteel mythos. Though it is a stretch.

[Morienthar]

Just a thought. There might be a connection between the original Hardhome disaster and the Dragonsteel mythos. Though it is a stretch.

What would it be??

[WidlingWarrior]

Dawn could be the original dragonsteel blade... but why is it down in Starfall? Wouldn't you want a weapon that can defeat the Others closer to where the Others would first attack?

My understanding is that the Last Hero searched for The Children of the Forrest and with there help defeated the Others. We know that Brandon the Builder is credited with creating The Wall with the help of TCotF. It could very well be that the Dragonsteel sword was the original Ice, So it's probably still in the crypts under Winterfell somewhere.

Just a thought. There might be a connection between the original Hardhome disaster and the Dragonsteel mythos. Though it is a stretch.

Sounds like a big stretch. Hardhome was destroyed only 600 years ago (300 years before Aegon's Landing).

[Lykos]

Dawn could be the original dragonsteel blade... but why is it down in Starfall? Wouldn't you want a weapon that can defeat the Others closer to where the Others would first attack?

<snip>

Not if you have to plunge it into a dragon before it becomes dragonsteel.

[Ser Leftwich]

What would it be??

The magic users of the north dabbling in trying to make some magic swords/steel, using volcanoes (as this was at the high point of Valyria) and the magics of the north. And some sort of disaster occurred.

Do we have any information on for how long Valyrian steel has been made? As in, has it been around for thousands of years or only 700?

[TheLastTarg]

Most meteorites are made primarily of one of two things, iridium or iron. If Starfall is an actual meteorite site then steel could have been forged there before anywhere else. I just wonder if we will actually find out. Surely GRRM can't possibly address all the things that are brought up on here so this could end up being one of those things like who is Tom Bombadil, or what happened to the Entwives.

this makes alot of sense

[mindchap]

this makes alot of sense

There are also those who think the Valyrians could be descended from Daynes, but there are whole threads on that elsewhere.

[TheLastTarg]

There are also those who think the Valyrians could be descended from Daynes, but there are whole threads on that elsewhere.

Gonna look that up... after reading the books twice i don't feel like i'm cheating myself by reading theories lol

i've always thought it was more than a little strange that both houses have silvery hair and violet/purple eyes. That and the Daynes claiming to have been around since the "beginning"

[Morienthar]

The magic users of the north dabbling in trying to make some magic swords/steel, using volcanoes (as this was at the high point of Valyria) and the magics of the north. And some sort of disaster occurred.

Do we have any information on for how long Valyrian steel has been made? As in, has it been around for thousands of years or only 700?

If the parallels betweem Damascus Steel and Valyrian steel extend beyond the rippling,It's probably been around for a few thousand years(about 2500 years).