mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I see him as a typical fantasy hero. There are threads which compare him to Aragorn. A ranger, hidden prince, etc. I saw his widlling storyline in the Avatar movie.Aragorn is not really a main hero in LOTR; Frodo is.Good looks would only move Jon further into the Gary Stu territory. We don't need Rhaegar 2.0I don't see how Rhaegar is much of a Gary Stu. Yes he is a good looking, talented man, but he makes many mistakes ie beliefs he is PTWP, cheats on his wife, kidnapps Lyanna possibly starting a war, loses to Robert at the Trident, blows the battle of the Trident despite having more men, strains relations with Dorne and that's just the things we know at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Aragorn is not really a main hero in LOTR; Frodo is.It doesn't make Aragorn not a hero though. Frodo actually failed and he would not have gotten so far without the help of friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Good looks would only move Jon further into the Gary Stu territory. We don't need Rhaegar 2.0Rhaegar is far from being a flawless character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair's Pantaloons Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 It doesn't make Aragorn not a hero though. Frodo actually failed and he would not have gotten so far without the help of friends. Yeah, Frodo sucks as a hero tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 It doesn't make Aragorn not a hero though. Frodo actually failed and he would not have gotten so far without the help of friends.True, but Aragorn is this incredible mythological hero come back to life. There are hints about him, but he is a mystery. Frodo, technically failed, but still did better than anyone else could have in the same situation. So would not call him a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yeah, Frodo sucks as a hero tbh.What why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair's Pantaloons Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 What why? Because he failed and can't fight and can't really do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 True, but Aragorn is this incredible mythological hero come back to life. There are hints about him, but he is a mystery. Frodo, technically failed, but still did better than anyone else could have in the same situation. So would not call him a failure.Jon may do that literally.It's a fellowship. There isn't just one hero. They help each other. To a lesser extent HP was like that too in that Harry really needed Hermione.Then there's the whole prophecy which may apply to Jon or others in that the dragon has 3 heads. Of course it remains to be seen if GRRM will switch it up and make him a villain. Even still a hero can later become a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Because he failed and can't fight and can't really do anything.He was set an impossible task, but did the best he could. There is more to being a hero than fighting. Frodo does a lot and if it was not for him the quest would have failed half a dozen times. He saves the others on multiple occasions. Without Frodo the Hobbits would never have even got to Bree let alone destroying the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Crow Come Over Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 He was set an impossible task, but did the best he could. There is more to being a hero than fighting. Frodo does a lot and if it was not for him the quest would have failed half a dozen times. He saves the others on multiple occasions. Without Frodo the Hobbits would never have even got to Bree let alone destroying the ring.He wasnt tall or strong tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Jon may do that literally.It's a fellowship. There isn't just one hero. They help each other. To a lesser extent HP was like that too in that Harry really needed Hermione.Then there's the whole prophecy which may apply to Jon or others in that the dragon has 3 heads. Of course it remains to be seen if GRRM will switch it up and make him a villain. Even still a hero can later become a villain.There are several heroes, but Frodo and Sam are the standout ones.The difference between Jon and Aragorn, is that Jon is a POV character. In the actual LOTR, we know very little about Aragorn. His love for Arwen is clear and he often thinks of her, but we are not aware of it. Just like Martin does not give us a POV of any kings, the LOTR is the story of the Hobbits.Back to Jon, he does not have the same auro about him as Aragorn. Aragorn literally has to put a shade over his true self, because it is too bright for most people. Jon may turn out to be the hero, but he is not particularly special. He is not the most handsome, the most intelligent, the best swordsman, the greatest leader or even have the best weapons. We see him wrestling with his feelings of inadaquacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 There are several heroes, but Frodo and Sam are the standout ones.The difference between Jon and Aragorn, is that Jon is a POV character. In the actual LOTR, we know very little about Aragorn. His love for Arwen is clear and he often thinks of her, but we are not aware of it. Just like Martin does not give us a POV of any kings, the LOTR is the story of the Hobbits.Back to Jon, he does not have the same auro about him as Aragorn. Aragorn literally has to put a shade over his true self, because it is too bright for most people. Jon may turn out to be the hero, but he is not particularly special. He is not the most handsome, the most intelligent, the best swordsman, the greatest leader or even have the best weapons. We see him wrestling with his feelings of inadaquacy.No one's arguing against that fact.GRRM makes him more approachable as I said but that's not necessarily new to the hero trope.He did do an interview in reference to ADWD where he said that he wanted to show how hard it is to rule because you never see Aragorn ruling so he was either talking about Dany or Jon since they both were in positions of power and had difficulty handling their respective positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 No one's arguing against that fact.GRRM makes him more approachable as I said but that's not necessarily new to the hero trope.He did do an interview in reference to ADWD where he said that he wanted to show how hard it is to rule because you never see Aragorn ruling so he was either talking about Dany or Jon since they both were in positions of power and had difficulty handling their respective positions.Martin may like LOTR, but I will take what he says about it with a large grain of salt. As I said, LOTR is not Aragorn's story. It is not about him. It is about Frodo and the other Hobbits primarily and important to show their growth. Aragorn is an 87 year old man when we first meet him. From other sources and hints we know he has the experience. We do see Aragorn ruling and he does a good job. His judgement of Beregond is an example of how he stick's to the law, but allows for justice to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Martin may like LOTR, but I will take what he says about it with a large grain of salt. As I said, LOTR is not Aragorn's story. It is not about him. It is about Frodo and the other Hobbits primarily and important to show their growth. Aragorn is an 87 year old man when we first meet him. From other sources and hints we know he has the experience. We do see Aragorn ruling and he does a good job. His judgement of Beregond is an example of how he stick's to the law, but allows for justice to take place.We still don't know who asoiaf is about. Jon fans will say him but there are many who will disagree. Aragorn is one of the most known examples of the whole hidden king or prince trope which applies to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I may be reading too much into this, but the lack of mention of Jon's looks, good or bad, seems to stem in large part from his being a bastard. In Winterfell, since he's close to being a social outcast due to his bastardy, he's not looked upon as a leader, a man, a hottie. He's just Ned's bastard son. It's only once he gets to the Wildlings, with Ygritte, that someone is sexually attracted to him, and that's because they don't give a crap about his bastard status. I would assume that Ygritte finds him attractive, since she more or less has immediate hots for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 IIRC doesn't Alys say that when she met Jon previously he left quite the impression on her? that she was taken to Winterfell to meet Robb as her father hoped to make a match. But that it had been jon she wanted to be dancing with. Also I think Ygrittes attraction to him, Val's flirting Mel seems rather taken with him too. This all kinda points to him growing into quite the sex god. He was a kid still in Winterfell adults don't usually comment on childrens attractiveness and Sansa well I don't know about the rest of you but at 11 when I thought about my older brothers their looks never came into it. Kids tend to be wrapped up in their feelings for their siblings the resentments, the jealousy over parental "preferences" etc. I don't recall ever thinking my 13 yr old brother was hot, not even when my mates started trying to snog him. I am with AM in thinking that if we had a POV from a lass at the wall giving a Jon description we'd get a different picture. Another point is that up untill recently we didn't get people commenting heavily on Sansa's good looks as she was still a kid but as puberty has hit she's blossoming same with Jon, he is 18 now which is arguably a mans peak. I'm in the he's very nice on the eye camp, but being as they are at the wall, wrapped up like Inuits and sporting beards whilst shitting their pants about the frozen zombie army, the raging wars and starving to death that no one thinks to out loud comment that my that Jon has grown into a handsome chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ours if the Fury Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 No both Jon and Robb were meant to be very handsome but never a beast that was sexy... although yigritte seemed to think Jon was :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Summer Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Im sure its just a matter of opinion depending on who's looking at him. I dont see why a person being attractive has to mean they are one of the most beautiful people the wold has ever seen or worth commenting on. I think a lot of the characters opinions are really shallow and superficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Another point is that up untill recently we didn't get people commenting heavily on Sansa's good looks as she was still a kid Actually there were plenty of such comments about her right from the start of the series from many characters. Arya, Joff, LF, Loras, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Jon Snow is a sexy beast.We don't get see that many POV's from women who acknowledge it(only ones are like Cat, Sansa, and Arya) and while Melisandre may not have commented on it. We all know she wants him.Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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