The Tyrells, yay or nay?

[Cas Stark]

I like the Tyrells quite a lot. They are less twisted than the Lannisters, and know how to mold public opinion into their favor. I see them as representing the "new aristocracy" that knows how to integrate the popular will into their favor (sending food to Kings Landing, presenting themselves as compassionate, especially Margery). Sure, they are opportunistic, but so is everyone else in the seven kingdoms. Martins failure to develop them as people leaves most of us knowing that they will not be major players at the end of the book, but I do think that a Tyrell-led empire would be a good one.

I agree, I wish/hope he fleshes them out more in the next books and am glad they did that in the show. They are sooo much better than the stupid Martells, except the Red Viper, who is ya know, dead.

[Victor227]

I like them a lot more than the Lannisters personally. Yes, they're opportunistic and run by a bit of an oaf, but when they get into a bad situation thanks to Mace's attempts at politicking, their first instinct isn't to turn on one another or jockey for power in the family, it's to fall into line, work together, and do whatever it takes to preserve their family. Their biggest advantage by far is that unlike every other family apparently, they can trust one another to have their back. Margery gets in trouble? Mace is turning an army around to rescue her. Mace makes a bad decision? His mother and children cover for him and force a gain out of it.

They're a bit dull and vanilla without all the internal games (at least we can only assume there aren't, as we don't have a pov to go on), but they're lethally efficient, and have so far devoured the lion's share of the benefits of the War of Five Kings in terms of lands and titles. In the Game of Thrones, they're playing as a team.

[Waylin Stark]

Lol I just read this. Almost exactly what I posted. You know what they say about great minds :cheers:

:cheers:

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I hate the Tyrells, I don't like a single person from that house

well, maybe the Queen of Thornes, but she's technically a Redwyne

[BreastplateWithNipples]

Is it just me or does it seem that no one is particularly fond of the Tyrells. Does any single person like the Tyrells or does everyone just not really feel anything towards them?

Things that I like about them:

They have a huge family, and care for one another. Examples: Olenna/Margaery, Garlan/Willas.

They keep a court of competent vassals who respect them: The Redywnes, the Tarlys, the Hightowers.

Things about them that are rather "meh":

They have no principles - opportunists who act solely on their own advantage.

Mace is an idiot.

Loras is pretty arrogant.

The story doesn't tell us about their sons and heirs (Willas, Garlan) so it is hard to feel anything about them.

To me, they mostly stand out in contrast to the other houses, not really because of distinctive qualities of their own. They're more open than the Lannisters, less stubborn than the Starks, more relaxed than the Martells and apparently rich enough to get along even without a strong personality at the head of their house. They also come off very favorably when compared to their rivals, the Florents, who are fanatics (Selyse), fools (Alester) or bootlickers (Axell).

I would like to think that Westeros would be well off with them at the helm. But I also think we just haven't yet seen their faults and weaknesses exposed on the open because they are relatively new to the game and so far it's all been easy going for them. (Unlike for, say, the Florents who have been put under a lot more stress after siding with Stannis.)

If the trial of Margaery goes badly we'll see what Mace is made of... and Loras' fate on Dragonstone, and their eventual reactions to it, would be another thing to watch out for because I expect it will shape how we really come to see them. Oh, and obviously the Ironborn invasion of the Reach is now really going to put them to the test.

[BreastplateWithNipples]

Yes, they're opportunistic and run by a bit of an oaf, but when they get into a bad situation thanks to Mace's attempts at politicking, their first instinct isn't to turn on one another or jockey for power in the family, it's to fall into line, work together, and do whatever it takes to preserve their family. Their biggest advantage by far is that unlike every other family apparently, they can trust one another to have their back. Margery gets in trouble? Mace is turning an army around to rescue her. Mace makes a bad decision? His mother and children cover for him and force a gain out of it.

Totally agree. It's a side about them that I like very much. However, I think it's something that they could "afford" to have because unlike the Lannisters their rule in the Reach seems to generally have been unchallenged so far. The Florents are their main rivals but the Tyrells seem to have kept them well in check over the years. The Florents also appear to have been somewhat stupid and too eager to grasp at power to see the dangers. The current generation of Florents appears to all be idiots, while Mace's family is above average in terms of political acumen and helps him in the Game.

[Minstral]

Totally agree. It's a side about them that I like very much. However, I think it's something that they could "afford" to have because unlike the Lannisters their rule in the Reach seems to generally have been unchallenged so far. The Florents are their main rivals but the Tyrells seem to have kept them well in check over the years. The Florents also appear to have been somewhat stupid and too eager to grasp at power to see the dangers. The current generation of Florents appears to all be idiots, while Mace's family is above average in terms of political acumen and helps him in the Game.

All though I agree the Tyrells have a deal of good qualities going for them, their bannermen seem to be the more unruly of the Seven Kingdoms. I mean, considering the Blackfyre rebellions and other notable conflicts we see the strength of the Reach divide itself into rebel and loyalist factions the most (well, perhaps with the exception of the Riverlands).

[Tommen]

I love them all apart from Mace (annoying) and Alerie (don't know enough about her to have any feelings either way). Does anyone have an opinion on Alerie Hightower?

I may be projecting TV's more fleshed out version of Margaery onto bookMarg, but I remember liking her attitude when Cersei visited her in her cell.

[Perfidious Algernon]

The Tyrells seem to have a strong distaste for open conflict, which means they've so far been able to accomplish their goals with a bare minimum of rape, pillage, and murder. I'm in favor of any nobles who don't have a knee-jerk instinct to solve their problems by killing smallfolk.

Also Marg and the QoT are clever as hell. It won't happen, but think how dangerous a daughter of Highgarden and Bear Island would be.

[thesmilingspider]

I like them individually, but they really do behave like...up-jumped stewards. They play the game well and I'm willing to bet that the Reach and Highgarden and their status will remain in tact, regardless of what happens at King's Landing. I agree with a lot of the pro-Tyrell points here, but they aren't suited to swords and magic...and it seems that with the Ironborn at their throats and the Others in the North and dragons in Essos, they're outmatched.

[Pharnavaziani]

Is it just me or does it seem that no one is particularly fond of the Tyrells. Does any single person like the Tyrells or does everyone just not really feel anything towards them?

I love them. They work as a team, have a degree of mutual tolerance and respect for traditionally-persecuted traits outside of the figurehead, and don't leave a mountain of corpses during their machinations, though not for lack of ability.

[Mulled Wino]

They are just there. Not a single tyrell in my top 15. Oleanna comes in in the late teens.

they are ironborn fodder.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

In a fantasy series where legit magic is a real power and those who have it at their disposal use it to affect the outcome of the game, I find it somewhat charming that The Tyrells get by on using "magic" we're all familiar with in the real world: fake magic. Cheap parlor tricks, smoke and mirrors, misdirection, like a stage magician.

It starts with the ongoing trick and illusion of Mace being the leader: playing in to the biases of their feudal society, Mace gets trotted out as the sitting lord and patriarch, the role that typically makes all the decisions for a family and is both the root and controller of their ambitions. And yes, Mace has to rubber stamp everything ultimately, but we all know Lord Oaf is not really in charge (and their fortunes would take a dire turn if he was). He is full of a Lord's bluster, and while he struts across the stage doing goofy stuff like the hand-shaped Hand Throne (LOLOLOLOL) and rebuilding the tower of the hand "bigger and longer" than before (which Cersei LOLOLOLs at) and draws the attention of outsiders, Olenna and Marge and Garlan do the real plotting, moving, and shaking behind the curtain. Watch the right hand, while the left hand tucks the card you selected up a sleeve.

Loras rides a mare in heat instead of his usual horse and beats The Mountain in a joust.

Garlan puts on Renly's armor and charges into to the Battle of the Blackwater; Renly's old bannermen now nominally loyal to Stannis "see a ghost" and defect or flee en masse.

See this pea under the shell? See these other two shells? Okay, moving them all around now, keep your eye on the pea. Where's the pea now? Oops, too late, King Joffrey is choking to death on it.

It's no wonder so many of us expect Aurane Waters' reports of Loras' grievous wounds and imminent demise are not only Greatly Exaggerated but probably Outright Bullshit (even without the added skepticism that naturally stems from Waters, with his dubious loyalties and hidden agenda, being the source the info), and that somewhere on Dragonstone (or maybe even elsewhere!) Loras is fit as a fiddle, a rabbit waiting to be pulled out of a hat at just the right moment.

[Mulled Wino]

In a fantasy series where legit magic is a real power and those who have it at their disposal use it to affect the outcome of the game, I find it somewhat charming that The Tyrells get by on using "magic" we're all familiar with in the real world: fake magic. Cheap parlor tricks, smoke and mirrors, misdirection, like a stage magician.

It starts with the ongoing trick and illusion of Mace being the leader: playing in to the biases of their feudal society, Mace gets trotted out as the sitting lord and patriarch, the role that typically makes all the decisions for a family and is both the root and controller of their ambitions. And yes, Mace has to rubber stamp everything ultimately, but we all know Lord Oaf is not really in charge (and their fortunes would take a dire turn if he was). He is full of a Lord's bluster, and while he struts across the stage doing goofy stuff like the hand-shaped Hand Throne (LOLOLOLOL) and rebuilding the tower of the hand "bigger and longer" than before (which Cersei LOLOLOLs at) and draws the attention of outsiders, Olenna and Marge and Garlan do the real plotting, moving, and shaking behind the curtain. Watch the right hand, while the left hand tucks the card you selected up a sleeve.

Loras rides a mare in heat instead of his usual horse and beats The Mountain in a joust.

Garlan puts on Renly's armor and charges into to the Battle of the Blackwater; Renly's old bannermen now nominally loyal to Stannis "see a ghost" and defect or flee en masse.

See this pea under the shell? See these other two shells? Okay, moving them all around now, keep your eye on the pea. Where's the pea now? Oops, too late, King Joffrey is choking to death on it.

It's no wonder so many of us expect Aurane Waters' reports of Loras' grievous wounds and imminent demise are not only Greatly Exaggerated but probably Outright Bullshit (even without the added skepticism that naturally stems from Waters, with his dubious loyalties and hidden agenda, being the source the info), and that somewhere on Dragonstone (or maybe even elsewhere!) Loras is fit as a fiddle, a rabbit waiting to be pulled out of a hat at just the right moment.

excellent work here and interesting perspective

[ambi76]

Magic tricksters, I like it. I also love the false Tyrell money in that respect. Using biased coin then and there, because you just don't get that rich by being pretty alone. :bowdown:

[Jasta11]

I like them, honestly. They are a close-knit, functional family without the penchant for self-destructive honor that some Starks have.

[Guest]

I like the Tyrells, not on the whole of course, framing Tyrion was really crappy. But they killed Joff, presumably because they thought Tommen would do better, and they did a favor to the realm in that. They tried to rescue Sansa (even though it benefited them to do so), and the matriarch Olenna is dang clever. I think they are decent as can be expected in the current political climate.

See this pea under the shell? See these other two shells? Okay, moving them all around now, keep your eye on the pea. Where's the pea now? Oops, too late, King Joffrey is choking to death on it.

LOL I LOVE this.