Ser Jake Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Her chapters in ADwD were painful to read, for the most part. Too many confusing, unimportant characters introduced and nothing really happens save for a few chapters. Hopefully once the 'Mereenese Knot' is untied her chapters will go back to being great again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Smiling Eye Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She's completely irrelevant to the overarching storyline and if she died tomorrow, the story wouldn't suffer for it at all.I hope she dies in the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Look Im not trying to be insulting, but I really don't understand what people who feel like you even like about these books. Im not trying to justify Cruxifiction in the real world, but the world of ASoIaF is a harsh, brutal one where one has to be ruthless in order to gain and maintain power. It shocks me when people pick out relatively minor moments like this or Tyrion arming the Mountain Clans as proof positive that they are completely unredeemable villians. Is there any character other than maybe Sansa, who doesn't have a body count in the thousands on their hands by this point? Even she was somewhat responsible for the slaughter of her father's retinue in KL. Relative every other ruler in this world Dany is a Saint, and that is all that matters.I love this defense of "everyone does it and that makes it ok", when in fact not everyone does this. In fact let's go over the books and sees how many people have ordered the death of over 100 people by means of torture. Let's see, we have Gregor Clegane/Tywin Lannister. We have maybe Aerys. We have Joffrey (with the antler's man episode). That put her in some select company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yes those wars did not benefit the common people. Aerys wasn't burning many commoners was he, it was mostly high born nobles as far as I remember. Power struggles amongst the political classes in a feudal society are obviously always bad for commoners. They see no benefit from any change in regime and their livelihood and actual life is often severely threatened. I can't remember the quote I'm sure someone will correct me but it's something like 'the innocent suffer most when you high lords play the game of thrones'"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon stark I Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yes and I am happy that Stannis and Robb punish rapers, but unlike them, at that time in her life, Daenerys had no such power or influence to punish rapers among the Dothraki. All that she could do is tell them to stop and make them marry the women that they wanted sex from, which is not much better, but alas, it was all she could do.Look even if she couldn't stop them she could have(if she cared for people the way she seems) prevented Dothrakis attack but she made her husband look that way.But she points Westeros and if Khal Drogo lived then we would see a raped, slaved and butchered Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 But she picked 169 at random instead of punishing the guilty. Some of those people might have played no part in the prior atrocities. I don't consider that justice.This is a big misconception of text. Dany never once claims this act was about justice, nor does she present the act as such. It was strictly about vengeance and that was clear from the beginning because she became determined to take the city because of the 163 children executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Hedge Knight Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She comes across as entitled and whiny; she makes the same kinds of stupid, emotional decisions that got characters killed in Westeros (e.g., Robb), yet she still manages to conquer and annihilate everything as if she's playing on God mode. And then you have the drudgery that is her arc in ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She's completely irrelevant to the overarching storyline and if she died tomorrow, the story wouldn't suffer for it at all.I hope she dies in the next book.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Yak Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You can't blame Dany for the atrocities committed by Drogo's Khalasar. She was in no position to stop them. You can very much blame her for seeing those atrocities, the raped women and piles of severed heads and such, and still thinking it was a good idea to use Drogo's Khalasar to take the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yes those wars did not benefit the common people. Aerys wasn't burning many commoners was he, it was mostly high born nobles as far as I remember. Power struggles amongst the political classes in a feudal society are obviously always bad for commoners. They see no benefit from any change in regime and their livelihood and actual life is often severely threatened. I can't remember the quote I'm sure someone will correct me but it's something like 'the innocent suffer most when you high lords play the game of thrones'Aerys was in the process of burning KL to the ground, until Jamie shoved a sword in his back. Pretty sure there was a shit ton of poor commoners, in the Capitol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You can't blame Dany for the atrocities committed by Drogo's Khalasar. She was in no position to stop them.You can very much blame her for seeing those atrocities, the raped women and piles of severed heads and such, and still thinking it was a good idea to use Drogo's Khalasar to take the Iron Throne. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She says slavery is bad but she acts like she owns all the people in essos and westeros. She thinks everyone should give her what she wants because she is a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 This is a big misconception of text. Dany never once claims this act was about justice, nor does she present the act as such. It was strictly about vengeance and that was clear from the beginning because she became determined to take the city because of the 163 children executed.I know it was not justice, and what's worse she knew it too. She did something deliberately unjust, which resulted in the death by torture of many people, and that bothers me, and bothers me more because she *knew* it wasn't just and did it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You can't blame Dany for the atrocities committed by Drogo's Khalasar. She was in no position to stop them.You can very much blame her for seeing those atrocities, the raped women and piles of severed heads and such, and still thinking it was a good idea to use Drogo's Khalasar to take the Iron Throne.I agree, and you can very much blame every other would-be ruler in the history of ASOIAF for seeing such atrocities and still thinking that it was a good idea for their armies to take what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Lyanna Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She says slavery is bad but she acts like she owns all the people in essos and westeros. She thinks everyone should give her what she wants because she is a Targaryen.Precisely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 She says slavery is bad but she acts like she owns all the people in essos and westeros. She thinks everyone should give her what she wants because she is a Targaryen.Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I have to go, but I'm sure that this will go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Aerys was in the process of burning KL to the ground, until Jamie shoved a sword in his back. Pretty sure there was a shit ton of poor commoners, in the Capitol.Ok yeah so in that one instance you have an example of a high born person doing something that benefits the commoners, and I'm sure there are other examples as well. But can you really characterise the relationship in Westeros between high born and low born as anything other than intensely exploitative as a general rule throughout the series? I don't think you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon stark I Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I agree, and you can very much blame every other would-be ruler in the history of ASOIAF for seeing such atrocities and still thinking that it was a good idea for their armies to take what they wanted.Give me one good ruler who saw raped women or severed heads all over the place and decided "hey this looks good lets continue this acts in our homeland, okey guys after this battle I am taking you to my hometown to murder and rape my people who is in ?Then you guys can select me your new mayor :D" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Started with Quarth and Astapor and reached it's tipping point in Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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